Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Bossroo]

Thank you - I recently listened to a news story about a cheese company finding profitable uses for the whey, the byproduct of cheesemaking, which was fascinating. I wondered at the time whether the company was using pasteurized milk, I assume they probably are, and I wonder whether it changes the protein value, or nutritional value of the protein, in the whey, which is apparently being dried and sold as a nutritional supplement at a pretty substantial profit. The story did a brief history of what used to be considered a waste product sometimes dumped on pastures, and sometimes sold for pennies to hog farmers, among other things. Very interesting.

So many uses for whey ... My grandparents used to not only feed the whey to their hogs, but they also used it to condition their own and their kids' hair after they washed their hair with lye soap. Very soft and lusterous !

 

[Pozees]

So many uses for whey ... My grandparents used to not only feed the whey to their hogs, but they also used it to condition their own and their kids' hair after they washed their hair with lye soap. Very soft and lusterous !

One of the questions it led me to was whether we should be considering whey as an alternative protein source in chicken/poultry feed.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Thank you - I recently listened to a news story about a cheese company finding profitable uses for the whey, the byproduct of cheesemaking, which was fascinating. I wondered at the time whether the company was using pasteurized milk, I assume they probably are, and I wonder whether it changes the protein value, or nutritional value of the protein, in the whey, which is apparently being dried and sold as a nutritional supplement at a pretty substantial profit. The story did a brief history of what used to be considered a waste product sometimes dumped on pastures, and sometimes sold for pennies to hog farmers, among other things. Very interesting.

When making cheese from pasteurized milk in a large cheese factory, the practice is to use LOW TEMPERATURE PASTEURIZATION which is at 145 degrees for 30 min. rather than the high temperature used for "ultra pasteurization" that is used for "drinking milk". The ultrapasteurized milk has proteins that are so denatured and the calcium is altered in such a way that the milk can't flocculate (thicken up and turn into a curd). But the low temp pasteurization isn't so hard on the proteins and calcium and they will still be useable for cheesemaking. It's common practice to have to add calcium chloride into the milk so that the calcium bonds are strong enough to be able to form the curd (after pasteurization).

Even when using the low temp pasteurization they have to add cultures (and usually calcium chloride) back into the milk so that the cultures can begin to proliferate. It's kind of like what we talk about here when we say that antibiotics create more viable, strong bacteria. Same in milk. As soon as it's pasteurized, it becomes a great place for the proliferation of "bad bacteria" as there is not a healthy flora alive anymore to balance out the mix. (Sound familiar?) Therefore, after pasteurizing, the "good bacteria cultures" have to be added back in when the milk is at a temperature that is conducive to that particular bacteria mix is reached and then the temp is maintained so that those bacteria can begin to proliferate by consuming the lactose in the milk.

Now interestingly - if you drink milk there is a lot of lactose - milk sugar in layman's terms - that is present so the carbohydrate content is relatively high in milk. Ever noticed that cheese has very low carbs? That's because the cultures - the good bacteria - EAT THE LACTOSE and produce lactic acid in it's place. The lactose is digested by our little friendly, healthy LABs and they acidify (lower the pH) the milk in the process. The heightened acid (Lowered pH) produces an environment that is hostile to "bad bacteria". So we get a low carb end product AND wonderful "probiotics" in the process.

These little guys are wonderful!

Now for dried whey power... It all depends on how they are treating it after the cheesemaking process. If they are dehydrating at a high temperature you will have issues with the denaturing of the proteins. However, there are some whey mfgrs that make their whey from grass fed milk which has been dehydrated at a lower temperature in an attempt to make the nutrients as bioavailable as possible. Those are the whey powders that may be worth purchasing.

The whey - liquid right out of the cheesemaking process - is great for animal feeding (including chickens & hogs) and also makes a somewhat decent fertilizer. You have to remember, however, that the whey is acidic due to the lactic acid (lowered pH) so you might have to be careful when using as fertilizer.

You can also dump it on your compost pile....LABs help jump-start that process as well.

So.... TMI?


ETA - you wouldn't use the powdered whey for animal feed.

 

[colburg]

I'll ferment it. I'll go slow with it and see how it goes and if they are receptive to it. The other day I crushed egg shells and fermented them and these crazy birds picked all around them and didn't eat them the first go round but the shells were finally cleaned up in subsequent feedings.

I wouldn't place grit in the feed but you can offer it free choice if they aren't free ranged and can obtain their own. I gave my chicks some free choice when I switched to the whole grains and they really attacked it at first but barely partook of it thereafter so I'm assuming they are finding appropriate grit out on their foraging jaunts.

Bee, are you still fermenting egg shells? Offering them free choice on the side?

Anyone have any thoughts on fermenting pecans? We have a bunch of small ones that didn't shell out very well that they go nuts for

when we throw them out raw. I'll also keep my low grade pecans that don't get sold plus try to get another 2-3 thousand pounds from other growers.

 

[Beekissed]

One of the questions it led me to was whether we should be considering whey as an alternative protein source in chicken/poultry feed.

Yes! Grandma gave all her whey to the hogs and chickens on a regular basis. Good for conditioning and keeping them healthy.

Bee, are you still fermenting egg shells? Offering them free choice on the side?

Anyone have any thoughts on fermenting pecans? We have a bunch of small ones that didn't shell out very well that they go nuts for

when we throw them out raw. I'll also keep my low grade pecans that don't get sold plus try to get another 2-3 thousand pounds from other growers.

Nope. No need...just throw them out on the ground and the chickens eat them the way God intended.

 

[Pozees]

When making cheese from pasteurized milk in a large cheese factory, the practice is to use LOW TEMPERATURE PASTEURIZATION which is at 145 degrees for 30 min. rather than the high temperature used for "ultra pasteurization" that is used for "drinking milk". The ultrapasteurized milk has proteins that are so denatured and the calcium is altered in such a way that the milk can't flocculate (thicken up and turn into a curd). But the low temp pasteurization isn't so hard on the proteins and calcium and they will still be useable for cheesemaking. It's common practice to have to add calcium chloride into the milk so that the calcium bonds are strong enough to be able to form the curd (after pasteurization).

Even when using the low temp pasteurization they have to add cultures (and usually calcium chloride) back into the milk so that the cultures can begin to proliferate. It's kind of like what we talk about here when we say that antibiotics create more viable, strong bacteria. Same in milk. As soon as it's pasteurized, it becomes a great place for the proliferation of "bad bacteria" as there is not a healthy flora alive anymore to balance out the mix. (Sound familiar?) Therefore, after pasteurizing, the "good bacteria cultures" have to be added back in when the milk is at a temperature that is conducive to that particular bacteria mix is reached and then the temp is maintained so that those bacteria can begin to proliferate by consuming the lactose in the milk.

Now interestingly - if you drink milk there is a lot of lactose - milk sugar in layman's terms - that is present so the carbohydrate content is relatively high in milk. Ever noticed that cheese has very low carbs? That's because the cultures - the good bacteria - EAT THE LACTOSE and produce lactic acid in it's place. The lactose is digested by our little friendly, healthy LABs and they acidify (lower the pH) the milk in the process. The heightened acid (Lowered pH) produces an environment that is hostile to "bad bacteria". So we get a low carb end product AND wonderful "probiotics" in the process.

These little guys are wonderful!

Now for dried whey power... It all depends on how they are treating it after the cheesemaking process. If they are dehydrating at a high temperature you will have issues with the denaturing of the proteins. However, there are some whey mfgrs that make their whey from grass fed milk which has been dehydrated at a lower temperature in an attempt to make the nutrients as bioavailable as possible. Those are the whey powders that may be worth purchasing.

The whey - liquid right out of the cheesemaking process - is great for animal feeding (including chickens & hogs) and also makes a somewhat decent fertilizer. You have to remember, however, that the whey is acidic due to the lactic acid (lowered pH) so you might have to be careful when using as fertilizer.

You can also dump it on your compost pile....LABs help jump-start that process as well.

So.... TMI?


ETA - you wouldn't use the powdered whey for animal feed.

TMI? No Way!!! This is one of those things I don't get tired of reading and learning from, thank you for sharing your knowledge!

You wouldn't use powdered whey for animal feed because of the heat treatment then?

DH just told a coworker a few weeks ago he half expected to come home one day and see a dairy cow grazing - little does he know how tempting it is!

 

[Leahs Mom]

TMI? No Way!!! This is one of those things I don't get tired of reading and learning from, thank you for sharing your knowledge!

You wouldn't use powdered whey for animal feed because of the heat treatment then?

DH just told a coworker a few weeks ago he half expected to come home one day and see a dairy cow grazing - little does he know how tempting it is!

umm hmmm..... my cheesmaking and desire for raw milk is what started my whole animal pursuit in the first place. Just the idea of having to milk is a pretty big commitment! I keep thinking about going on vacation...not too hard to have someone feed & water the dog (and chickens...) but milk a cow??

I'd have to have someone w/experience you could trust.

 

[smyers32]

umm hmmm..... my cheesmaking and desire for raw milk is what started my whole animal pursuit in the first place. Just the idea of having to milk is a pretty big commitment! I keep thinking about going on vacation...not too hard to have someone feed & water the dog (and chickens...) but milk a cow??

I'd have to have someone w/experience you could trust.

This is exactly why I haven't gotten a dairy animal yet, seriously big commitment. Did you know there are miniature dairy cows?? 1/3 the size of standard dairy cows!! Ahhhhh, someday...(someday when I don't have any desire to ever leave my farm for more than a few hours any day, if that day ever comes)

 

[Beekissed]

Did you know that you have to bend over double to milk those miniature dairy cows unless you build a substantial platform on which they can be trained to stand upon while you are milking them? Milking a standard cow can be strain enough on the back but to milk a very short cow is even more. It sounds cute and like they would be less work and worry but then you also have to find a short and tiny bull with which to breed them so that they can have calves and stay freshened.

Twice the expense, twice the trouble...all to get a smaller cow. Why not just get a goat?

 

[smyers32]

Did you know that you have to bend over double to milk those miniature dairy cows unless you build a substantial platform on which they can be trained to stand upon while you are milking them? Milking a standard cow can be strain enough on the back but to milk a very short cow is even more. It sounds cute and like they would be less work and worry but then you also have to find a short and tiny bull with which to breed them so that they can have calves and stay freshened.

Twice the expense, twice the trouble...all to get a smaller cow. Why not just get a goat?

IF I were ever to get a dairy animal, it most certainly would be a goat! But there's no denying the cuteness of a pint sized jersey!! (pun intended) I like the idea of less feed, and less milk from a smaller cow, while still getting cow's milk, but the cost would definitely be prohibitive. The goat poses the same bending or platform issue, but also would be easier in every other respect and muuuuch cheaper! I've read you can milk a goat once a day instead of the required twice a day for a cow. Just a shame goats can't produce cow's milk, I really like being able to separate the cream, so much versatility.