Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[RoseMarie1]

That's up to you....if your flock is fine acting, performing well and healthy, you can choose to leave it alone or stage an intervention. The soap can work but go easy...a dab will do ya and anymore than a drop or two and the birds won't drink the water much.

I don't know how you keep your birds so I'm a little timid in making recommendations....all natural solutions won't sustain a flock unless other natural husbandry practices are in place, so I hesitate to recommend solutions of that type to people who may not cull naturally poor birds, can't provide healthy soils underfoot, and won't take other actions to insure they have a naturally healthy flock. Not saying you fit that description, as I do not know, but just a caution I try to take nowadays when I remember.

I'll tell you why this is so important...because I see many posts on this forum and others about other specie of livestock where people are keeping all their animals~no matter what~ and won't cull for those with strong immune systems and natural vigor and health, but still want herbs and other home remedies to right the wrongs in their animal's health and it rarely, if ever, works. Then they get disillusioned with an all natural approach and condemn it as "not worth it" or claim that it didn't work with their animals and so they discourage others from even trying it.

It works beautifully if animal husbandry is approached in a holistic manner and all areas of the habitat, feed and husbandry are also considered and geared towards natural health and living.

Just a damp rag and a gentle swipe on the smudges only. Then train your birds to the nests and keep a deep litter in the coop and run so that they aren't tracking mud from their feet into the nests. That eliminates the problem before it starts and you'll still occasionally get a smudged egg but it won't look like it's been rolled around in poop. Those that I get that are too poopy, I just feed to the dog. He loves them! But, mostly, I never get dirty eggs..the occasional smudge now and again.


Excellent solution! That's everyone's first thing when they hear of someone's flock having pale combs...give them a worm medicine! I'll tell you true, at different times in a chicken's life they are going to have more pale combs than they usually wear...this is indicative also of lower hormone levels during times of molt or during the winter slow down, etc. This does not mean they are anemic, necessarily, but not as fertile. Look at young pullets and note that their little combs and wattles are pale at first~NOT meaning they need wormed!~but redden up as they grow sexually mature and the hormones are reaching a peak. Hormones fluctuate throughout the year according to the bird's age, the season, etc.

I've never taken a poop sample of any of my animals to the vet, though if it gives someone more confidence there is nothing wrong with it, but it's not a necessary function nor is it unwise to not take samples to the vet..it's a husbandry preference and according to your goals for your flock or your husbandry methods, it will determine whether you consult a vet.

I'll tell another truism...you will never completely rid your flock of worms and the goal should not be to do so. Every animal has their parasite~even us~and unless they overgrow into infestation levels, one never really knows it. Acceptable loads is the goal and animals healthy enough to carry acceptable loads of parasites and still function normally will live longer and perform better than animals that keep getting over growths of internal parasites that need medicines all the time to help them live and get rid of the worms.

Nothing wrong in throwing a spring tonic or pumpkin seeds down their gullet once a year or so, but to put them on a schedule and check their stool for any evidence of oocysts is kind of defeating the purpose of having backyard animals, IMO, as we want to eat healthy foods...what is so healthy about sick animals that cannot live without medicinal help? Unless one is eating their small bowel after processing, it's not likely the worms they carry will ever effect us at all.

Biologists say that 90% of the herd or flock's parasites are carried by only 5% of the animals...and culling for thrift, health and performance can eliminate that 5% to a good degree. How are we going to know what animals are in the 5% if we keep chucking meds down their throats so they can live well and perform well? That's the same problem big ag has today is crutching up sick animals so they can produce, whereas in the olden days those sick animals were eliminated and that left the naturally strong and healthy animals for our foods.

I had this question on a couple other posts of yours when you talk about culling but ALWAYS would forget to ask it. When you speak of culling, now do you eat those birds OR do you dispose of them somehow? I'd like to know what you find except-able to eat when it comes to the birds? Say one just doesn't look right to you and it stays looking like that, do you cull and eat it? I wouldn't know which ones I would feel would be safe to eat or which ones to dispose of. NEED some info on this to since one DAY I do plan on being able to eat my birds! Hubby is taking my cockerels to sell on Sat. So I can really work with the ones I am going to keep now is the only positive I can find in the situation. ONE DAY I WILL be eating and slattering sp? my own cockerels to eat! I WILL I WILL!

 

[TexasLisa]

I had this question on a couple other posts of yours when you talk about culling but ALWAYS would forget to ask it. When you speak of culling, now do you eat those birds OR do you dispose of them somehow? I'd like to know what you find except-able to eat when it comes to the birds? Say one just doesn't look right to you and it stays looking like that, do you cull and eat it? I wouldn't know which ones I would feel would be safe to eat or which ones to dispose of. NEED some info on this to since one DAY I do plan on being able to eat my birds! Hubby is taking my cockerels to sell on Sat. So I can really work with the ones I am going to keep now is the only positive I can find in the situation. ONE DAY I WILL be eating and slattering sp? my own cockerels to eat! I WILL I WILL!

Good question!! Awaiting Bee's answer.

I had an egg-bound hen and we culled her. My brain went in to overtime and I told my dh I didn't want to eat her because something else might have been wrong.

The word you wanted was : slaughter

Lisa

 

[wlhtx]

Bee, this is a good question and I look forward to your answer as well. We are planning to slaughter several next weekend. Extra cockerels, old hens no longer laying, and probably a couple 2 yr old hens that are not great layers and also have a hard time staying feathered in good. Particularly, I have on JG hen that has had a bald spot on her neck for the whole summer, despite various treatments for various possible causes.

I know your flock doesn't have many of the ailments that show up on this forum, but what - if anything - would prevent you from eating a bird after killing it?

 

[Beekissed]

If I killed a bird due to culling for poor looking birds who were failing to thrive, I wouldn't eat them at all and I wouldn't even plan to eat them~by this I mean skinny, pale, unable to maintain good conditioning, etc., as I don't know the reasoning behind their failure to thrive and they would be too skinny for me to fool with anyway....but I would examine their organs, their small intestines, etc. to see if I could pinpoint their difficulty.

If I was just culling for minor things that didn't seem to be an illness but just a failure to return to normal feathering or can't seem to be normal in other areas such as laying, I'd eat them. Egg bound hens...I've never had one and I think it would depend on how long they had been eggbound and if it had caused an infection, such as peritonitis, in their bodies.

If I opened her up and there was ascites or evidence of disease in her organs or signs of obvious infection~purulent drainage, abnormal lesions, etc~I'd not eat her. These are things you can't really tell from the outside.

Usually a bird that has prolapse and resulting egg bound it's due to increased fat layers around reproductive organs...that is something to note and try to avoid in the future, either with your feeding or your breed selections.

 

[Beekissed]

Well I weighed my birds and did some calculations.

Based on the feed conversion ratio of 2-2.5lbs of feed per lb of meat for the average broiler I am way ahead. I have a flock of 13 male birds (a fourteenth chick was with us for 4 days, not sure what happened but now we have 13.) The first five days were dry feed and then FF free choice until two weeks when I started rationing it.

There's an upside and a downside to this. The upside is by this chart;

http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/a/aa/500x1000px-LL-aadf500f_rock-growth.jpeg

This charts says 13 birds should have eaten 58lbs of feed. Mine have only eaten 47ish. (Close to the bottom of the first bag.)

The downside is they are only 2lbs. Which is much smaller than I expected at this point.

The other upside is that means my birds have eaten 3.6lbs of feed to produce a 2lb body. Which is a feed conversion ratio of 1.8. Not too shabby!

The other downside is by this chart I should have a FCR of 1.75... But I'm not even sure that's realistic since most studies show 2-2.5lb FCRs.

I don't mind growing them out longer than the "typical" 8 weeks as long as I process before they crow their heads off (suburb), I will grow them until I run out of feed or I determine they are too big (9lbs is too big) or they are crowing significantly and then I will process. But I don't want to miss their peak growth ratio, and I do wonder if feeding rationed FF is causing them to eat and subsequentially gain much less. Should I just try feeding more FF? I currently feed 3X's a day what they can clean up in about 5-8 minutes. They still won't eat grass or greens on the ground.

Thoughts?

They are growing slower NOW...but they will catch up to the growth scales that are out there when you can grow them longer. The trade off is that you actually get to keep all your birds without them dying and their meat is healthier than those stuffed with food and living in a small pen or tractor.

My first bunch~without FF, but just layer rations and whole grains once per day and free range all day~reached 10 lb live weight by 8 wks. I kept them until 11 wks but saw no real increase in their size or wts so then processed them.

The first bunch fed on the same rations, the same one a day rations, but different genetics grew a little slower...but they were much, much, much more active in their free ranging. When I killed them there was absolutely no fat whatsoever under their skin or in their bodies. If I were to do it all over again, I'd increase feed amounts and add some BOSS at the end to increase that natural fat layer under the skin and to fill out the carcass a little.

I think adding more feed at the end wouldn't hurt and it's the earlier weeks when it would be so detrimental to their health to let them pack on the pounds. There is a lady I helped with processing, a member here, who finished out her birds at around 15 lbs each live weight...biggest birds I've ever seen in my life. She fed them organic feeds and whole grains that were FF, free ranged them and I think they were 12 wks when she finished~ but, Oh, what a finish!!!

Every bird healthy and clean, organs all healthy as can be, huge carcasses.

One has to remember that the goal is not only saving on feed costs, but also saving on bird loss, while producing a much healthier product in the end. So, even if the feed savings is minimal~mine wasn't...I saved tons compared to other methods...the real savings is low mortality and less risk of eating birds in liver failure or heart failure. Who wants to eat that kind of animal?

 

[TexasLisa]

If I killed a bird due to culling for poor looking birds who were failing to thrive, I wouldn't eat them at all and I wouldn't even plan to eat them~by this I mean skinny, pale, unable to maintain good conditioning, etc., as I don't know the reasoning behind their failure to thrive and they would be too skinny for me to fool with anyway....but I would examine their organs, their small intestines, etc. to see if I could pinpoint their difficulty.

If I was just culling for minor things that didn't seem to be an illness but just a failure to return to normal feathering or can't seem to be normal in other areas such as laying, I'd eat them.

Thanks Bee! I don't suppose I could convince you to move to Texas????

Lisa

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks Bee! I don't suppose I could convince you to move to Texas????

Lisa

I've always wanted to SEE Texas...I grew up on Louis L'Amour books and always wanted to be a cowboy...um..cowgirl. But...it's a little too warm for this fat ol' gal!

I melts and I smells when I am in the heat too long...must have my fall, winter and spring!

 

[Triple Willow]

Okay, I'm a little freaked! Early in the year I couldn't go outside without having dang ticks all over me when I came back in. I bet I have got over 30 ticks, shoot maybe closer to 50, off of me this year. Probably 8-10 of them were stuck! Last week I found one on me and a few days ago I found another on me. The little vermin! Well last night I was in the grocery looking at apples and I noticed a tiny tiny one crawling on my hand. I really think it came from one of the bags of apples! Well I was trying to kill it and I lost it, it got away! I'm pretty sure it was crawling on me somewhere but it was so dang small I'd never know - I'm talking like the size of a small ink pen dot. Well I get home and immediately strip down to my undies and put my clothes in the washer, doctor them up with extra soap and ammonia and wash them. Then as I am in the bathroom pulling off my socks about to get in the shower for a Dawn dish washing liquid shower and head washing (lol) I find three dang FLEAS on one of my socks! Ahhhhh! Now where in the heck did they come from! I've never seen fleas in my house unless it was on a dog and immediately went back outside with him! So now what to do? Did they come from my coop/chickens? Did they come from my boyfriend's yard? (- his next door neighbor has somewhere between 9-12 dogs plus 3-4 cats on a postage stamp sized lot, but most of them in her house.) Did my nephew bring them whose friend has had an infestation at their house? Did they come from the feed store? OR ALL OF THE ABOVE! LOL

Okay, so I guess my question for you folks is how do I treat my chickens and coop for fleas (and any other nasty critter) if they do have them??? I hate poisons and don't use any unless it is a last resort! I REALLY hate to kill the good bugs but I have got to get ahead of these fleas before I develope a full blown infestation. I think maybe ticks aren't so bad now. lol ...just not on me!

 

[foreverlearning]

Thanks Bee! I don't suppose I could convince you to move to Texas????

Lisa

Bee in the south? She would never be the same! Celebrity she would be! She would have to start a class and accept getting fat as we would all flock to her for her knowledge with food in trade.

 

[Beekissed]

Okay, I'm a little freaked! Early in the year I couldn't go outside without having dang ticks all over me when I came back in. I bet I have got over 30 ticks, shoot maybe closer to 50, off of me this year. Probably 8-10 of them were stuck! Last week I found one on me and a few days ago I found another on me. The little vermin! Well last night I was in the grocery looking at apples and I noticed a tiny tiny one crawling on my hand. I really think it came from one of the bags of apples! Well I was trying to kill it and I lost it, it got away! I'm pretty sure it was crawling on me somewhere but it was so dang small I'd never know - I'm talking like the size of a small ink pen dot. Well I get home and immediately strip down to my undies and put my clothes in the washer, doctor them up with extra soap and ammonia and wash them. Then as I am in the bathroom pulling off my socks about to get in the shower for a Dawn dish washing liquid shower and head washing (lol) I find three dang FLEAS on one of my socks! Ahhhhh! Now where in the heck did they come from! I've never seen fleas in my house unless it was on a dog and immediately went back outside with him! So now what to do? Did they come from my coop/chickens? Did they come from my boyfriend's yard? (- his next door neighbor has somewhere between 9-12 dogs plus 3-4 cats on a postage stamp sized lot, but most of them in her house.) Did my nephew bring them whose friend has had an infestation at their house? Did they come from the feed store? OR ALL OF THE ABOVE! LOL

Okay, so I guess my question for you folks is how do I treat my chickens and coop for fleas (and any other nasty critter) if they do have them??? I hate poisons and don't use any unless it is a last resort! I REALLY hate to kill the good bugs but I have got to get ahead of these fleas before I develope a full blown infestation. I think maybe ticks aren't so bad now. lol ...just not on me!

My dog has been suffering with fleas these past two years, for the first time ever....but I've never seen a flea bother a chicken. They can cycle through a chicken, though, as the chickens eat worms, so not sure how to prevent that whole cycle.

One solution another member on another forum gave and I've yet to try it but I remember the oldsters doing the same thing.....spread lime all over the soils in your yard and you can even do it in your coop and run. Not caustic lime but the sweet lime...you should be able to purchase bags of it in garden centers. They say the fleas cannot live and thrive in soils that are a little on the alkaline side and it also helps your lawn to have a little lime on it as well, so win/win!

You can also use it in your coop and nest bedding if you are using deep litter and it will sweeten your composting....just don't go overboard...low and slow is fine.

Free ranging your birds should help with ticks....I haven't seen a tick on the dogs, cats or us for many a long year now. Only if one goes out into the woods often here will they get a tick. That little tick you found could have been a deer tick and is no light or laughing matter....Lyme Disease is on the rise in this country and it's spread by these tiny vectors. If you find a small place with a bull's eye red ring around it, don't wait...go to the doctor and get meds. You can stop the process with the right meds. If you ignore it, the consequences can be dire.