Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[griffinkid02]

I've seen through out this thread people asking if we are making alcohol. I have not seen a definitive answer to that question. (only on page 68) I also have no definitive answer but do remember when I checked the moonshine pages few years back. It said that to make alcohol you take yeast and grain mash and mix with water. So in my thoughts yes the people that are using yeast are making alcohol (grains make sugar yeast eats sugar and excretes alcohol). On the other hand I have been looking at recipes for making apple cider vinegar and the mother in the vinegar appears to start out as yeast (the yeast eats sugar from apple and excretes alcohol but then something happens to the yeast and the mother takes over and turns the alcohol into vinegar) That's where I get confused the mother turns the alcohol into vinegar what the heck is mother I can't find any thing on the web to say exactly what it is. So when we use ACV to make fermented feed I don't know if it goes through the alcohol stage or not. Now what I do know when we use yeast as some are natural or bought it is making alcohol and every time you add new grains more sugar is released and more alcohol is made until you reach the alcohol by volume rate of the yeast you have used. Maybe someone with more experience in brewing (I've seen comments from some talking about making beer and wine) will comment on this and let us know when alcohol is no longer alcohol or if in fact we are making alcohol and getting our chickens addicted to it and that is why they flock to it and forget about the the dry stuff.
Also so far I have read that they don't put on the weight as fast with the ff as they do with dry and that they eat less ff than dry that is typical of an alcoholic and it is said they seem happier
of course the do if their drunk. Seriously I am curious about this because I started ff yesterday thought about this and quit today.

Oh my! LoL.

My dear pigeonguy, PLEASE do not take is as laughing AT you, but I must tell you the mental images I had of drunken chickens staggering about the run and flying crookedly up their roosts almost put me in the floor, lol. Being that I started out with baker's yeast, my brew went through the alcohol stage, took about 2 days to hit it fully, then about 3 more to move past it. I believe that is actually how I lost my first two batches. I misunderstood the process and was fighting the conversion to the acetic acid bacteria, which gave the yeast time to reach full bloom and ruin the whole thing. After gaining a better grasp of what it was I was trying to accomplish I have had much better success. And no drunk chickens...yet

As Bee put it (and so well organized and educational sounding too), alcohol is not the objective, just a step in the process. The bacteria that we want eat the alcohol that the yeast produces, ergo by the time the chickens get it (if done properly) no boozer chickens. I now have this mental image of a drunk a slurry rooster stumbling up to a hen and stuttering out aweful pick-up lines.... lol. Thank you so much, it has been a long day and I needed that.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Regarding the "mother"...

I decided to purchase an old wooden cask of sorts to brew my vinegar in. I thought it might give it a better flavor. I tasted what I had been making in glass jars and didn't really like the flavor too much, though I like ACV. So, I went from apple juice concentrate to Apple Cider... anyway, I have a HUGE mother on top.

What can I do with it? I don't have another container to divide to so...

If it gets too strong, can I add water or would that kill it?

 

[griffinkid02]

Regarding the "mother"...

I decided to purchase an old wooden cask of sorts to brew my vinegar in. I thought it might give it a better flavor. I tasted what I had been making in glass jars and didn't really like the flavor too much, though I like ACV. So, I went from apple juice concentrate to Apple Cider... anyway, I have a HUGE mother on top.

What can I do with it? I don't have another container to divide to so...

If it gets too strong, can I add water or would that kill it?

Bottle it up and sell it to those of use that can't buy BRAGGS locally

 

[Lacy Blues]

If I did that people would say I'm so calloused that I would even sell my own mother!

 

[Lacy Blues]

Oh I know... "boo... hiss.. go home you loser!"

Sorry! I just couldn't resist.

Seriously though... Can I feed it directly to the chickens?

I don't have extra ACV, just extra mother. It's covering the entire top of my bucket.

"The Mother That Ate Manhattan" sounds like a cheap B movie.

 

[griffinkid02]

If I did that people would say I'm so calloused that I would even sell my own mother!

LMAO! Actually I was envisioning the Craigslist add:

"For Sell: bacterial cultures. Fully established and fast acting, highly adaptable."

I swear we would testify before the CDC on your behalf

 

[Lacy Blues]

Did you ever watch the sci fi thriller "The Blob"? I think it has moved into my bucket!

Gads! I must be tired!

I'd better go to bed before I get myself in trouble.

It's been fun!

See y'all t'morrow!

 

[pigeonguy]

This thread shows less weight gain
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/672135/meatie-experiment-ff-vs-crumbles/50
and in post 776 myhubbycallsmechickeemama says the weights were smaller.
That worked for them though and that is good. The carcass weight you give is good though. The ones CX neighbor and I did last year at 8 weeks were between 8.5 and 10 pounds but carcass weight was between 6 and 7.5 pounds. Not much better than those
The vinegar thing with the mother that is what I was after and am
asking myself why I didn't look in the dictionary.
As far as mixing the mother with the grains I still don't know if it
makes alcohol before vinegar because of this:

Steps for Making Cider Vinegar

The following steps must be followed to make a high-quality cider vinegar:

1) Make a clean cider from ripe apples.

2) Change all of the fruit sugar to alcohol. This is called "yeast fermentation."

3) Change all of the alcohol to acetic acid. This is called "acetic acid fermentation."

4) Clarify the acetic acid to prevent further fermentation and decomposition.

(google for any ACV recipe to clarify)
I do know that people that are mixing bread, wine or beer yeast are
making alcohol.
Also you do use the same yeast to make vinegar as you do wine. I read about 20 recipes and they all said bread, wine, beer yeast. (some said one some said another)

Don't get me wrong on this I see nothing wrong about feeding meaties on
this they only live 8 weeks. Talked with my neighbor about it and next
year we are going to raise 50 CX or FR (haven't decided yet) 25 on mash
and 25 on fermented mash and I will post the results.
My dad said one of my Great uncles use to feed
his feeder pigs whiskey mash and it did get them drunk. The thing is he
never fed it to his breeder sows because he was going to keep them for
a longer time. Yes I do know this thread is about meaties but I see
people posting that they are doing it to their laying hens which is
what I have right now and it is those people I am concerned about.
I just thought that those people might like to know if their using yeast
their feeding liqueur soaked grains. I do serve my mash mixed with water though and put UP/ACV in their water

PS: I forgot you can't read body language on line Alcoholic was maybe a
bit far fetched. I have read a lot on this thread how people had to coax or force the fist feeding. You said several times only offer ff and they will eventually eat it. Some put dry crumbles on top
to coax them. Just for the record that is exactly what I will do with the meaties but not my layers. Others can if they want I don,t care just thought they had a right to know.

 

[pigeonguy]

Oh my! LoL.

My dear pigeonguy, PLEASE do not take is as laughing AT you, but I must tell you the mental images I had of drunken chickens staggering about the run and flying crookedly up their roosts almost put me in the floor, lol. Being that I started out with baker's yeast, my brew went through the alcohol stage, took about 2 days to hit it fully, then about 3 more to move past it. I believe that is actually how I lost my first two batches. I misunderstood the process and was fighting the conversion to the acetic acid bacteria, which gave the yeast time to reach full bloom and ruin the whole thing. After gaining a better grasp of what it was I was trying to accomplish I have had much better success. And no drunk chickens...yet

As Bee put it (and so well organized and educational sounding too), alcohol is not the objective, just a step in the process. The bacteria that we want eat the alcohol that the yeast produces, ergo by the time the chickens get it (if done properly) no boozer chickens. I now have this mental image of a drunk a slurry rooster stumbling up to a hen and stuttering out aweful pick-up lines.... lol. Thank you so much, it has been a long day and I needed that.

No offense taken. I have just read about a lot of people here that put yeast in their grain wait one day then serve. Can any one deny that is alcohol. I will remember that when I do my meaties next year though and did read it here before guess it never registered.
I'm just an old country boy and have seen worse things done to save a buck and I'm all for it. Never seen this but that's probably cause people here have fields and fields and fields of grain that they just threw on the ground for the chickens.

 

[Kildare49]

They were from sunnyside hatchery ( Beaver Dam, WI ). Would make sense. If my ff was nothing more than a moon shine operation using a coop as cover
Lord knows our cheeser chicks would do well. Next time I'll be sure to grind up some brats to serve with ff.