Final Pathology Report Results

[tgperg]

Quote:
Heck, no, people shouldn't think that. I mean, even *IF* every bird out there had it, and not even the guys I'm working with said that EVERY bird had it. They just said that it was very, very, very difficult to keep a flock MG free because it has a reservoir in wild birds. But, even IF they all had that, there's lots and lots of other diseases out there and biosecurity protects against those as well. Biosecurity slows the progressive spread of disease so we don't have giant epidemics like that new horse disease I just heard about. Scared the crap out of me.

Traci

 

[Erica]

This is such an interesting thread. Hope I can add a few thoughts (echoing some others).

Firstly, good on you for wanting to care for what you have. And I really applaud your diligence as far as keeping a closed flock and doing all you can to avoid spreading it.

Like Speckledhen I disagree with some of the sentiments about MG being everywhere. I know I'm in another country, but we seem to have similar standards for these things (e.g. commercial flocks have mostly eradicated it). I've bought birds with MG, but far, far more birds without it.

This is why I think it isn't as prevalent as some people say. In my experience it's always obvious (over time) when you've got a chronic infection in the flock. It's impossible to avoid the stress that can bring it out and eventually you'll see signs in some or all of the birds. I have a goshawk that prowls my pens (despite roof netting) and in a way this is lucky because the stress will always bring disease out in a carrier.

When you don't have MG you don't get any chronic respiratory symptoms in any of the birds no matter what the stress, it's as simple as that. This isn't perhaps all that scientific but it works for me over long term, i.e. years. A clean flock without introduced newcomers just doesn't develop rattly signs.

I guess MG could be prevalent in one area if an infected breeder sells a lot of birds, e.g. of a rare breed. That happens around here actually. My answer (having bought my first infected flock from a local breeder of rare birds) is to avoid that breeder. Ask around and you'll find other clean flocks like Speckledhen's. You may also end up avoiding a particular breed locally on the assumption that it's probably infected too, as with rare breeds a lot of local swapping goes on.

I hope you move forward one way or another. It can be very depressing to hear the rattles and sneezes as you approach a pen, but at least you can feel you're caring for them. My choice would be different but I can fully understand yours.

 

[tgperg]

Part of the reason that I am so reluctant to cull is because except for the rooster none of my other adult birds have ever shown any signs of illness. I don't hear rattling breathing stuff. That's why for the longest time I really believed what the breeder told me, that the rooster had allergies, because none of his hens ever got sick. No crusty eyes, no rattling breathing, no coughing, no sneezing, no funky smell about them. NOTHING. They have been asymptomatic, completely healthy since I got them a year ago at six weeks of age. I found one bird dead back in October. She was fine one night, next morning she had fallen off the roost. Then in May we started losing tons of birds to predators and I replaced my breeding muscovy drake and the replacement bird dropped dead. I thought that the drake was the problem and freaked out and cleaned everything top to bottom and started trying desperately to find a vet who would treat chickens so I could figure out what I was dealing with instead of just randomly give some medicine. I had a six week old chick get sick before I found a vet, took the chick and my rooster in to the vet. We started with the lab work and necropsy then. The vet was pretty sure my rooster was the source of the infection so I culled him right away. I lost another chick. Both the chicks were necropsied, but we did not isolate MG from either of them. Not by culture, not by PCR DNA testing. Nothing from tracheal swabs or biopsies. The adult birds have the antibodies to it, but none of them are shedding the virus. PCR DNA testing on tracheal swab cultures are negative. In addition to the things I've already done, I also am instituting a policy of no tolerance to symptoms of respiratory infections. Watery eyes, coughing, sneezing, rattling, funky smells from the nostrils, I will cull. No tolerance. If, by some miracle, I have birds that are actually resistant to this stuff, I really don't want to toss them. Yes, they've been exposed, and they have antibodies so I have to consider them contagious. That's why I will close my flock. But cull the whole thing? They don't get sick like the vets say that birds with MG do. Their egg production hasn't dropped like the vets say that birds with MG do. They laid 4-5 eggs a week all winter long with no supplemental lighting in an unheated open coop. I won't take a chance with other people's birds. But it just doesn't sit easy with me to put every one of them down if they've never ever been sick.

Traci

 

[mulewagon]

Darn, Traci, I don't see how anyone could do more! It sounds like you've tested those birds stem to stern, plus putting yourself through decontamination every day. I hope they live for you to enjoy them many years.

 

[tgperg]

Oh, heavens, Mule Wagon. "Stem to stern" is right. The USDA vet was out here for over an hour. Those birds had things shoved up their bums, down their throats, and had blood drawn out of both wings! I sent bags of poop to IOWA! It was CRAZY! And he told me "These birds are some of the best looking birds I have ever seen. Healthy, clean. You obviously love them and take real good care of them."

Traci

 

[tgperg]

Mule Wagon: I love your .sig file.

Traci

 

[speckledhen]

Traci, I applaud you for being so responsible and diligent. Wish all folks were like that. Wish you all the best with your flock in the future.

 

[Elite Silkies]

Quote:
I'm not saying to stop practicing biosecurity, that would be ridiculous. I practice biosecurity and I always will. No one is allowed in my coops, I buy all of my birds from the same person, they get vitamins everyday that boost their immune systems, I use Oxine, etc. All of my coops have netting. They are as wild bird proof as I can get them for the time being, until I can afford the shade clothe to cover the entire coops. My birds are not allowed to free range, which may or may not reduce their risk of contracting MG. I have been lucky with the health of my birds, but all I am saying is that I wouldn't be shocked if they tested positive because it is so wide spread, and many people probably have MG flocks and are just not aware of it. I never said an MG flock is impossible to have.

Speckledhen, I'm not trying to step on your toes, I never have, I have always valued your opinion and your knowledge. I just feel a little differently about MG because several people will say my flock doesn't have it, but unless the entire flock has been tested and tested negative, then no one knows for sure that they have an MG free flock. I do think that your statement about the possibility of being asymtomatic is absolutely correct. A bird can be a carrier and never ever show any signs of the illness.

If it is so difficult for even a Commercial Operation to stop MG, then I just think it's twice as hard for us backyard flock owners to do so as well. Since most of us do not keep our birds in a confined area 24/7.

I have never sold anyone a sick bird and I never would, intentionally. I very rarely ever sell any of my birds. I have a couple of friends that take my chicks due to incorrect toes, but other than that I generally keep most of them. I would never do anythng to someone that I wouldn't want in return.

 

[tgperg]

Well, I'll tell you this. I have three birds that are absolutely, positively seropositive for the antibodies to MG and they have never shown the slightest sign of illness.

Traci

 

[Elite Silkies]

Quote:
Right! And you wouldn't have known if one of the others hadn't gotten sick, so that is kind of what I am trying to say. Just because you have never had a bird that has shown any symptoms, it doesn't mean they are not carriers.

We can't just assume that they are not carriers.