For the MINIMALISTS - those who think less is more in chicken keeping - Please help

[enrgizerbunny]

Thanks for the info, Mary. We were hoping to:
(1) make removable roost bars so that we can easily wipe them down and to make it easier to clean the coop as you mentioned
(2) put some kind of "topcoat" on the wood in the coop so that we can easily wipe it down and also to help with lingering odors that sometimes absorb into wood.

We're planning to resin (see photo) the coop floor but we can't use the resin anywhere else, unfortunately. Do you have another suggestion for the walls and studs? We also thought about PVC or vinyl nailed or glued over the wood (not the roost though.)

With regard to the roost bars being mobile or removable, maybe we don't really need to do anything? It's not a very big coop. Might be okay as is See photos.

Yes, I'm sure we will change it. Just hoping to get some things in order now as we're building because everything is more accessible.

Polycrylic is a good product for putting a clearcoat on something so that you can wipe it off. Water based.

Thanks for the info, ebunny. Did you ever have a problem with the heater breaking or is it pretty reliable?

It worked for 2 years, but the tstat on it was for tropical fish (70+ degrees). A small pond heater might have a lower tstat. They make heaters for livestock water buckets, and there’s also heat tape for pipes. Lots of options, but I’d double check the heat tape and PVC- might have to use CPVC. Then there’s PEX (special crimpers required) which can withstand freezing, but you’ll need an alternate water source for those cold days. You’ve got options.

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

Vinegar is a good cleaning agent (even if it is the distilled kind with no mother). So if you wanted to clean your barrel, and like me don't have access to its inside, then sluicing it with vinegar is a good method.
Vinegar corrodes most metals - so if your barrel has a metal spigot (mine does) then keeping vinegar in the water all the time probably isn't a good idea.
I looked up copper and yes it will work, and yes it may be toxic to chickens. I need to read some more though because I haven't found how much would be toxic. There is a big difference between having a 2 inch length of copper pipe in 50 gallons of water, and a chicken munching its way through a bowl of copper filings!
I will keep looking and let you know what I find.

This is really useful info regarding the vinegar. We haven't gotten to the spigot part yet. I did think about using a metal washer hose but we could probably use something else. Noted - vinegar not good with metal even when diluted.

Thanks for looking into the copper so quickly. Yes, a big difference between a little piece of copper in 50 gallons and them pecking at the copper.

In the video I found they had maybe a 5' high x 4" wide piece of PVC and they put a copper coupling in it so it wasn't a huge amount of water like a rain barrel. Would 1 coupling be enough in 50 gallons - I don't know. Again, I only saw this recommendation once. I try to look for a few sources before considering something with regard to safety. I'll keep looking, too.

 

[Folly's place]

'Clean' is relative, when it comes to home coops for small numbers of birds. it's not the same for large commercial flocks, where the 'all in, all out' management, with very serious cleaning is done each time.
We have a wood coop, some parts very old, and washing it would not be a good thing. Here we scrape out the 'big hunks' when we clean out the bedding, twice annually, and call it good enough. It's not possible to actually sterilize any of it, and nothing short of that would actually matter, when it comes to disease elimination.
Aquarium heaters are meant to be used at interior room temperatures, not outside! And they heat the water way too much, again, for tropical fish. Use a heater designed for livestock, and sized to match the volume of water you are heating, and fine on plastic, if that's what your container is made of.
And I'd bet that enough copper to manage algae is too much to drink as a total water source. And, vinegar is not an improvement either as a sole water source. Things get repeated here, and elsewhere, with no actual validity.
Plain drinking water, safely managed in freezing weather, always best.
There's 'in my kitchen' clean, and then there's 'chicken coop' and 'outdoors' clean. Not the same at all!
Mary

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

Polycrylic is a good product for putting a clearcoat on something so that you can wipe it off. Water based.



It worked for 2 years, but the tstat on it was for tropical fish (70+ degrees). A small pond heater might have a lower tstat. They make heaters for livestock water buckets, and there’s also heat tape for pipes. Lots of options, but I’d double check the heat tape and PVC- might have to use CPVC. Then there’s PEX (special crimpers required) which can withstand freezing, but you’ll need an alternate water source for those cold days. You’ve got options.

My husband suggested PEX. I don't know anything about that vs PVC. I need to research.

We're sitting here brainstorming ideas. We have 4 doors to our coop. 2 open together and the other 2 open together. the whole thing opens for easy accessibility. I think we're going to cut the doors at the 12" mark from the bottom so we have a "ledge" to hold the deep bedding. Then we can open those also when we need to clean out and replace. The rest of the time, those doors will hold the bedding in place. We were discussing using resin on the coop floor but now we may use PVC/linoleum and then line up 12" from the bottom including the 12" doors with 1/4" PVC. At the WCC (Wise Chicken Counsels) suggestion, we aren't going to do any other coatings to the inside of the coop. Do you think this would be better than using a clearcoat?

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

'Clean' is relative, when it comes to home coops for small numbers of birds. it's not the same for large commercial flocks, where the 'all in, all out' management, with very serious cleaning is done each time.
We have a wood coop, some parts very old, and washing it would not be a good thing. Here we scrape out the 'big hunks' when we clean out the bedding, twice annually, and call it good enough. It's not possible to actually sterilize any of it, and nothing short of that would actually matter, when it comes to disease elimination.

Right, I'm nervous about the diseases. It seems like chickens are very succeptible to bacteria and illness? By trying to put a smooth coating over the wood, I thought it would be simple to wipe so I could spot clean every week. I don't like that the wood is absorbing junk and poop. But it sounds like it's not as bad as I'm anticipating?

Aquarium heaters are meant to be used at interior room temperatures, not outside! And they heat the water way too much, again, for tropical fish. Use a heater designed for livestock, and sized to match the volume of water you are hearing, and fine on plastic, if that's what your container is made of.

I don't know anything about heaters. My husband is pretty good with this sort of thing, so I'm letting him run the show. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll relay the info to him.

 

[Folly's place]

Read up about biosecurity, which is very important. Most infectious diseases of chickens come from other chickens, so getting 'random source' birds is very dicey.
We have shoes and boots only worn here, never elsewhere. Nobody visits out coop who has chickens, unless they are very very careful about wearing totally clean everything, and then, nearly never.
With avian influenza about, things are more restricted than ever before, sadly.
None of these issues are managed by wiping down the roost bars, or the walls!
Mary

 

[Ridgerunner]

'Clean' is relative,

I agree with Folly. Some people seem to think you need to keep the coop clean enough to eat off of. You do not. The chickens don't care, they will not be offended if the coop walls are not polished. To me, the idea of cleaning anything above the bedding is mostly about using a broom to remove spider webs. If the chickens can't get to them to eat the spiders then the spiders are doing no good. Love those free protein sources. When knocking sider webs down I occasionally remove built up dust, I'm not obsessed by it.

You said your concern is disease. Dry chicken poop is not a problem. Bacteria and disease are not going to live in dry chicken poop, they need some moisture to live and reproduce. Some viruses can survive without moisture but they will be everywhere. As Mary said, wiping down roosts and walls will not affect that. I agree with her in biosecurity but will add that you need to manage poop to avoid wet poop. Constantly wet poop can be dangerous.

I don't try to keep a sterile environment. With chickens that is impossible anyway, why drive yourself nuts trying. Remember, you are a minimalist. I rely on strengthening their immune system by letting them live in their environment and taking reasonable precautions like biosecurity and avoiding sustained wet. When the weather sets in wet you are going to deal with wet outside, just do the best you can.

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

Read up about biosecurity, which is very important. Most infectious diseases of chickens come from other chickens, so getting 'random source' birds is very dicey.
We have shoes and boots only worn here, never elsewhere. Nobody visits out coop who has chickens, unless they are very very careful about wearing totally clean everything, and then, nearly never.
With avian influenza about, things are more restricted than ever before, sadly.
None of these issues are managed by wiping down the roost bars, or the walls!
Mary

Got it!

 

[enrgizerbunny]

My husband suggested PEX. I don't know anything about that vs PVC. I need to research.

We're sitting here brainstorming ideas. We have 4 doors to our coop. 2 open together and the other 2 open together. the whole thing opens for easy accessibility. I think we're going to cut the doors at the 12" mark from the bottom so we have a "ledge" to hold the deep bedding. Then we can open those also when we need to clean out and replace. The rest of the time, those doors will hold the bedding in place. We were discussing using resin on the coop floor but now we may use PVC/linoleum and then line up 12" from the bottom including the 12" doors with 1/4" PVC. At the WCC (Wise Chicken Counsels) suggestion, we aren't going to do any other coatings to the inside of the coop. Do you think this would be better than using a clearcoat?

Probably cheaper. I‘m going to have a dirt floor and no paint on the inside. You can also put a board on the inside of the door that holds the bedding instead of cutting your doors.

PEX is flexible and expands when it is freezes. PVC shatters. CPVC has a higher heat rating for carrying water than PVC. CPVC also shatters.

Also, contrary to popular belief, wood that is allowed to air dry will santize itsself when it dries (like wooden cutting boards that are cleaned with only soap and water). Plastics (especially with nicks and scratches in them) do not easily dry out completely and commonly form a biofilm of bacteria if they are not chemically sanitized (just like plastic cutting boards need to go in the dishwasher while wood doesn’t). So the whole wooden bacteria sponge thing doesn’t hold water in my book, pun not intended.

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

I agree with Folly. Some people seem to think you need to keep the coop clean enough to eat off of. You do not. The chickens don't care, they will not be offended if the coop walls are not polished. To me, the idea of cleaning anything above the bedding is mostly about using a broom to remove spider webs. If the chickens can't get to them to eat the spiders then the spiders are doing no good. Love those free protein sources. When knocking sider webs down I occasionally remove built up dust, I'm not obsessed by it.

I'm picturing poop on the walls. This is not true? Is it just mainly in the bedding area which deep bedding will take care of?

You said your concern is disease. Dry chicken poop is not a problem. Bacteria and disease are not going to live in dry chicken poop, they need some moisture to live and reproduce. Some viruses can survive without moisture but they will be everywhere. As Mary said, wiping down roosts and walls will not affect that. I agree with her in biosecurity but will add that you need to manage poop to avoid wet poop. Constantly wet poop can be dangerous.

I don't try to keep a sterile environment. With chickens that is impossible anyway, why drive yourself nuts trying. Remember, you are a minimalist. I rely on strengthening their immune system by letting them live in their environment and taking reasonable precautions like biosecurity and avoiding sustained wet. When the weather sets in wet you are going to deal with wet outside, just do the best you can.

Don't chickens drink out of puddles and eat whatever they find and they're generally okay? I don't want to micromanage every germ and spore. I like natural immunity. A quick wipe of gross areas here and there for my own visual sanity is good and keeping the coop dry seems realistic and simple.

We had a guy put in a driveway for us a few years ago and he told me that he never gets sick. He and his crew will work and then go get lunch and if they remember to wash their hands, great, if not, they just eat. He believed it was his exposure to dirt and germs and his natural biological response. I thought this was fascinating. I'm somewhat in the same camp, although I do like to wash my hands and clean my home because it feels good but I think exposure to germs is important to our resiliency I know chickens are different but something to think about. Sorry to go off topic...