For the MINIMALISTS - those who think less is more in chicken keeping - Please help

[GetFitWithKrista]

Probably cheaper. I‘m going to have a dirt floor and no paint on the inside. You can also put a board on the inside of the door that holds the bedding instead of cutting your doors.

PEX is flexible and expands when it is freezes. PVC shatters. CPVC has a higher heat rating for carrying water than PVC. CPVC also shatters.

Also, contrary to popular belief, wood that is allowed to air dry will santize itsself when it dries (like wooden cutting boards that are cleaned with only soap and water). Plastics (especially with nicks and scratches in them) do not easily dry out completely and commonly form a biofilm of bacteria if they are not chemically sanitized (just like plastic cutting boards need to go in the dishwasher while wood doesn’t). So the whole wooden bacteria sponge thing doesn’t hold water in my book, pun not intended.

PEX sounds awesome. Is there a downside to using that instead of PVC for the waterer and feeder? Do you think we could forgo with heating element altogether by using PEX? I'm intrigued!

Excellent analogy with the wood vs plastic cutting boards. I'm finally getting a good picture of what to expect. Honestly, I pictured poop thrown everywhere but that's not the case. It's mostly in the bedding more concentrated under the roasts, the deep bedding dries it out, and there may be some here and there on the walls but nothing excessive. Is this correct?

I think we'll use some kind of resin/vinyl on the coop floor bringing it up about 12" for the bedding accommodation and call it a day. Simple enough. Thoughts on a resin floor vs a PVC/vinyl floor?

Thanks to everyone for your brilliant insight. It is appreciated more than you know.

 

[enrgizerbunny]

PEX sounds awesome. Is there a downside to using that instead of PVC for the waterer and feeder? Do you think we could forgo with heating element altogether by using PEX? I'm intrigued!

Excellent analogy with the wood vs plastic cutting boards. I'm finally getting a good picture of what to expect. Honestly, I pictured poop thrown everywhere but that's not the case. It's mostly in the bedding more concentrated under the roasts, the deep bedding dries it out, and there may be some here and there on the walls but nothing excessive. Is this correct?

I think we'll use some kind of resin/vinyl on the coop floor bringing it up about 12" for the bedding accommodation and call it a day. Simple enough. Thoughts on a resin floor vs a PVC/vinyl floor?

Thanks to everyone for your brilliant insight. It is appreciated more than you know.

PEX is a type of plastic piping that is flexible, requires a special tool to put fittings together (but fittings are reusable). If you want less work- have a defroster of some sort.

I don’t know about brilliance, but I do know a couple things about food safety.

Bacterial growth is inhibited or encouraged by Acidity, Temperature, Time, Oxygen, or Moisture. You can only control two of these elements in your coop- the time it has to grow and the moisture available for it to grow.

I personally would not use resin in a coop because of the cost. If the resin is no cost I don’t see a problem with it.

 

[RoyalChick]

I'm picturing poop on the walls. This is not true? Is it just mainly in the bedding area which deep bedding will take care of?

If the roosts are too close to the walls you will get poop on the walls. About 12" gap is enough to stop most of it - but I do get a bit. I see it as more an aesthetic issue than a health issue. I might try scrubbing it off one area where they stained the walls.

PEX sounds awesome. Is there a downside to using that instead of PVC for the waterer and feeder? Do you think we could forgo with heating element altogether by using PEX? I'm intrigued!

PEX is great, but you can't fix a nipple into it because it isn't rigid.
What you can do is fit the nipple into a short bit of PVC and have PEX on either side.

 

[3KillerBs]

I think we've decided on the PVC water system attached to the rain barrel. I think we can utilize a little auto heater for the water for the couple months that it may freeze. Fingers crossed.

Heating the water in the bucket will not prevent an attached pipe from freezing. When the pipe freezes it will either crack open itself or the nipples will blow out.

Ask me how I know.

Can we polyurethane 3 sides of the roosts and leave the side the chickens stand on uncoated? Will this cause any problems to the chickens?

This would be worse than nothing because any moisture would become trapped and result in cracking.

If the coop is dry any poop that gets onto the roost will also dry. Dry poop does not present a problem.

Whatever you do now, it's all able to be changed later, when you find out what works, and what doesn't. Everyone I know has redone things in their coop and run, sometimes often.
Mary

Words of WISDOM!

Once they are in place, see if you can easily reach with a rake and shovel underneath to all the corners. Then put a stuffed animal in all the corners and whatnot and see if you could pick up that “chicken” - keep in mind you probably need two hands to safely pick up a hen. And they might be moving. Oh and if you are having fun with this, you could test again with an easter egg to simulate the “you laid your egg HERE?!” scenario

That should give you an idea how annoying they may be for spreading/cleaning out bedding and if you need to reach a hen.

Nice, practical advice. There's nothing like a good mock-up!

I can walk all the way around my roosts and I can also duck under them at need.

Arrange your roosts so that you can access the entire coop and it doesn't matter if you can take them out.

By trying to put a smooth coating over the wood, I thought it would be simple to wipe so I could spot clean every week. I don't like that the wood is absorbing junk and poop. But it sounds like it's not as bad as I'm anticipating?

If you really don't want bare wood consider good, old-fashioned barn paint. It's made specifically to go over bare, rough, unprimed wood and to stand up to outdoor conditions.

I'm picturing poop on the walls. This is not true? Is it just mainly in the bedding area which deep bedding will take care of?

If your roosts are far enough from the wall there won't be poop on them. 12" is usually given as a minimum.

What you can do is fit the nipple into a short bit of PVC and have PEX on either side.

If the pipe freezes the nipple itself will blow out.

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

Forgot to comment on the copper.
Yes copper inhibits algae.
Copper Sulphate is used to get rid of algae.
What I don’t know is if Copper or it’s salts are toxic to birds.
Worth some research.
I will look into it too and if it is safe will put a bit of copper pipe in my rain barrel.

I found these thread on BYC in a very quick search - I'm sure there's more:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/keeping-algae-out-of-water.380215/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/copper-pipe-in-water-bottle.915443/

ACV
Copper
Bleach
Oxine (not familiar with this)

Seem to be the top suggestions

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

If the roosts are too close to the walls you will get poop on the walls. About 12" gap is enough to stop most of it - but I do get a bit. I see it as more an aesthetic issue than a health issue. I might try scrubbing it off one area where they stained the walls.

Noted, thanks

PEX is great, but you can't fix a nipple into it because it isn't rigid.
What you can do is fit the nipple into a short bit of PVC and have PEX on either side.

Awesome

Found an old post on PEX vs PVC for anyone interested
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/pex-automatic-watering-systems.1072009/

 

[AmeliaBedelia]

As far as the “poop on the walls” issue, I found it basically plops out mayyyybe an inch or two and otherwise falls straight down. Unless your chicken is sick, you shouldn’t be seeing squirty poop - that’s how ducks poop, but chicken poop is more the consistency of a mushed up banana. And usually the size of a quarter (more or less). Lots of little poops.

I have an exposed interior horizontal support near the floor that gets poopy because the roost attaches on that wall so whichever chicken is on the end can hit it. Other than that, poop is on the floor. And TBH, I usually just knock those poops onto the floor every couple weeks or so. Mix them in the litter and let them decompose.

I don’t think a pristine coop should be your goal though. You’ll be cleaning wayyyy too much if you are trying to keep everything up to “human house” standards. Think of it more as an enclosed bit of nature - there’s bird poop in the forest, and as long as it is diluted enough to dry out, it’s not a huge deal. The role of bedding, poop-catching trays, etc etc is to remove or cover poop when it gets to be too much because the concentration of birds for the space is higher than it would be in nature.

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

Heating the water in the bucket will not prevent an attached pipe from freezing. When the pipe freezes it will either crack open itself or the nipples will blow out.

Ask me how I know.

I see. It's 2 potential problems - the water freezing and the pipe itself freezing. Someone suggested PEX. Might be worth looking into?

This would be worse than nothing because any moisture would become trapped and result in cracking.

If the coop is dry any poop that gets onto the roost will also dry. Dry poop does not present a problem.

Great, less work. No topcoat. Check

Nice, practical advice. There's nothing like a good mock-up!

I can walk all the way around my roosts and I can also duck under them at need.

Arrange your roosts so that you can access the entire coop and it doesn't matter if you can take them out.

I don't think I can do this with our setup so I'll have to make do. The coop is small. I'm okay with waiting on this and seeing how it goes.

If your roosts are far enough from the wall there won't be poop on them. 12" is usually given as a minimum.

Noted. They are. Thank you.

If the pipe freezes the nipple itself will blow out.

Got it.

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

As far as the “poop on the walls” issue, I found it basically plops out mayyyybe an inch or two and otherwise falls straight down. Unless your chicken is sick, you shouldn’t be seeing squirty poop - that’s how ducks poop, but chicken poop is more the consistency of a mushed up banana. And usually the size of a quarter (more or less). Lots of little poops.

Haha, I thought they have more goose-like poop. Got it.

I don’t think a pristine coop should be your goal though. You’ll be cleaning wayyyy too much if you are trying to keep everything up to “human house” standards. Think of it more as an enclosed bit of nature - there’s bird poop in the forest, and as long as it is diluted enough to dry out, it’s not a huge deal. The role of bedding, poop-catching trays, etc etc is to remove or cover poop when it gets to be too much because the concentration of birds for the space is higher than it would be in nature.

Perfect, less cleaning for me. Excellent comparison.

 

[GetFitWithKrista]

PEX is a type of plastic piping that is flexible, requires a special tool to put fittings together (but fittings are reusable). If you want less work- have a defroster of some sort.

In a very quick search, it looks like the tool might be $100?

I don’t know about brilliance, but I do know a couple things about food safety.

Bacterial growth is inhibited or encouraged by Acidity, Temperature, Time, Oxygen, or Moisture. You can only control two of these elements in your coop- the time it has to grow and the moisture available for it to grow.

I personally would not use resin in a coop because of the cost. If the resin is no cost I don’t see a problem with it.

Resin is out. A little PVC on the floor it is. I think I've got closure on coop cleanliness logistics. Thanks. Now I'm back to the watering situation.