For those who raise meat birds! (Finished Paper Pg. 4)

[Morgan7782]

Every opinion counts! I am sure we will have more similar papers and I am focusing my Animal Science education around poultry at this time.

Also I am looking for statistics regarding the big companies too but I am not sure why I can't find anything on searches. I do understand changing completely to small time farms would be a difficult thing to get everybody to feel good about, especially because in the end it's up to taxpayers.

I am loving this information both for personal insight and writing this paper, people will be credited for their personal experience. I am glad to have such a great resource such as BYC!

 

[Jared77]

Spring chicken no offense but the number of incidents would go down based on the fact that the chickens and eggs they are raising do not need to be on antibiotics to be able to keep their product (the chicken) safe. Yes they have the safety checks in place but those have to be there because of the husbandry practices not to protect us. The large operations know that if they didn't sterilize after so many birds they'd have lots of dead birds or contaminated meat/eggs being shipped out for consumers. The food recalls are proof of this. When profits are what drive the operation, then short cuts are going to be taken to drive down costs and increasing the profits even more. They get caught....oops! Take a few lumps, pay out some fines, say your sorry and it won't happen again......then something else pops up like the Tiger Woods story, or BP and the focus is on that and the news have moved on from the recalls and its all but forgotten in the minds of most folks, and its back to business as usual.

Its never been about quality product its the consumers demand for a bargain, thats why places like Walmart and other superstores are so popular. We've become a disposable society who's hell bent on making this as easy and cheap as possible. Why wash diapers when you can get a clean one out of a box and just toss the old one away? Look at how many people drive leased vehicles so they could continue to drive a new car every other year before the economy took a dive. Why buy chicken at 3 dollars a pound when you can get just as big if not bigger bird for 79 cents a pound? Too many people just don't care what they put into their bodies, or don't want to know. They are blissfully ignorant to the practices and what other "extras" they get in their meat other than just protien. The hormones, the antibotics etc. All that most folks want is their grocery budget to go farther.

do understand changing completely to small time farms would be a difficult thing to get everybody to feel good about, especially because in the end it's up to taxpayers.

Its not that at all, its about the cost of the product. Having to drive to the farm or even the farmers market to buy meat that's more expensive will turn people off. People want 1 stop shopping where they can get their tires, a big screen TV, a new set of sheets for the bedroom, and a weeks worth of groceries all at the same place. Nobody wants to go to the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. We're too busy and they cost too much.

Has anybody here had a flock wiped out from disease? Please share your experience, and what you did to fix the problem.

No thankfully

What are some personal pro's to raising your own meat birds?

As said before knowing everything that goes into that bird. Its as nutrient rich as your going to get and much safer for those who consume it.

As someone mentioned already, I know where the bird as been and the trip it took to my table and everything it has been exposed to along the way. Ditto for my eggs.

What sort of epidemic could you see happening if the US was to change from big company broiler companies back to family run farms and sales? (Provided there was enough land* this is strictly a "what if" question)

If something like a super virus or bacteria was created in the industry something along the lines of MRSA in humans. Be it something that was killing chickens, or infecting humans or both. That would seriously cripple the industry, changing peoples minds and the focus of just what people are consuming. Doing things on a smaller easier to monitor scale where the product was kept safer because the volume was more managable.

Something to think about..... http://www.theeasygarden.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=29205&p=2 scroll down till you see the poster yes its your patriotic duty

 

[KatyTheChickenLady]

springchickens, lol poor you, I knew from the moment I read your post that you would get put through the wringer for it . . . I think you are smart enough and strong enough to handle it though. I am impressed, andhope to see more of you on this thread!

morgan - be sure to carefully read what spring has said, especially since you are writing a pro small farm paper. spring is not against that position she is merely pointing out the difficulties with it, which you will need in order to identify ways to overcome them. her reponse to the benefits of large scale production are also very valid, if not popular. you are lucky to have such a resource on
"the inside" of things.
I am going to PM you my friends number. He owns a small scale hatchery and regularly deals with the large scale hatcheries. He is very nice and has a lot of info if you can catch him on a day when he has time to talk!

 

[Bossroo]

Many small flock raisers very often tune in to over the back fence truisms. How true that ism is is debateable and most animals and humans will survive the trueisms because they are indeed taugh.

 

[Morgan7782]

Quote:
Thank you all for the responses! I will absolutely read what springchickens posted, and this has been so much help. Thanks again

Very educational.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

On a small scale farm or small farm less people are effected, way easier to trace, and small enough to clean up the issue.
You know, don't get me wrong... I think the world would be a much better place if all the chickens were raised by backyard breeders. I know that you are right - we never did hear of these things happening 60 years ago BUT I feel that we didn't hear of them because they were small scale, not because they didn't happen. There were probably a greater NUMBER of incidents, but they were unrelated so no one cared. Less people die of food-borne illnesses now than they did 60 years ago, partly because of all the checks and balances we do have.

That's my point... you didn't hear about it... because if it did happen it was very small and only a small number of people were effected. Now with factory farms, millions are affected. Setting disease aside, I would like to take my chances getting sick from a backyard poultry producer that I can trust compared to a factory farm that I can't even visit.

You ask where the checks and balances were during the egg recall - I'm sure they were in place to an extent. When you have that number of animals crowded together in the horrid living conditions that laying hens are, you are going to have a higher risk for disease. I just think its a miracle that we don't have more problems with disease than we do. If you ask the average chicken owner how many diseases have gone through their flock in the past 15 years, there is almost certainly going to be a large number. If you ask the same question to a laying farm or a commercial broiler house, their number is going to be MUCH lower, despite the deplorable conditions these animals live in. It's just that when they do have a disease outbreak, we hear about it because of the number of people it affects.

Again, there is another point that shows that disease it inevitable with factory farms. One screw up, one rat, one whatever and the whole system fails and needs to be cleaned out. It does happen, and it has happened. There is ONLY so much that antibiotics can cover up.... and ONLY for so long. Those birds in an industrial setting don't stand a chance at weathering a disease, I would put my money on a backyard flock before a commercial one if I had to.

No system is perfect and our food animal industry is pretty @$#@ screwed up. I won't buy a meat chicken from the store any more because I don't want to eat what they stand for. I just looked up articles on antibiotic resistant bacteria in commercial broilers and found 249 peer-reviewed journal articles. I do think that broiler chickens are treated better than some livestock, particularly better than laying hens, but I have a major problem with the prophylactic antibiotics which they receive and the high mortality rate that broiler houses have (as well as other methods they use to raise chickens).

Which is why a disease is inevitable, it's not a matter of if.... but when. One more reason that these mega farms will be in a dying phase. Time will tell how long these systems will stay in place, these practices are soon to change... they are already changing in many states.

2) Have all the poultry owned by large scale commercial operations. (wait for it!) These operations would have a minimum space per bird of 10 square feet (ha) and would be in a situation similar to free ranging. They would be run by knowledgeable handlers who were well trained to recognize any form of disease and a sufficient number of handlers to adequately observe all those birds (double ha). These birds would be able to have access to outdoors with adequate free space and sunshine as well as shelter from the elements. Not sure what planet this system could exist on though... certainly not this one.

I also think that the price of all of our meat needs to increase dramatically! People need to stop looking at chicken as an easy, cheap dinner and look at it as an animal which was sacrificed for them. People also need to be able to raise chickens in humane conditions and still make money on it.


See, that's the wrong mentality in the beginning, but the end is similar to the revolution that is taking it's hold in todays food industry. Farmers are raising animals like you describe already, many in the numbers that it's starting to make a difference. Id rather see 1,000 farms instead of 1.... that employes thousands of people instead of a few hundred. People like myself and many others are able to raise poultry on a larger scale or any other animal for that matter, the right way due to consumer demand. People want to pay more for their food if they know where it comes from... I see it happen daily on my farm. I can't raise enough products this year for the demand that I have, and for eggs... forget about it. It's happening, it may not be noticeable in every community across the nation but it is around major cities and it's spreading extremely fast. The true challenge is finding farmers to fit the bill. Many want to farm... but don't really have it. They lack the passion, the persistence, and the patience to name a few. The demand is there and if these signs of all these recalls aren't enough proof of a system failing.... I don't know what is. But in my eyes, it gives me that much more drive to do what I do... I have the knowledge it takes to notice a disease and do practice all in all out when I can. However I need birds available weekly not every 8 weeks so it's trickier, I have to manage multiple ages on the same farm which on a factory farm it is a disaster waiting to happen.

I think your on the right track as far as feeding your family good quality meets and instilling those values into your children... that an animal is an animal and not a commodity. But for the sake of debate, I think you contradict a lot of what you say... you support it... but seem to lack the faith that it can happen, because I'm here to tell you that it is happening... I live it everyday.

 

[cutechick2010]

Bravo! Well said, Brunty_Farms!

 

[Morgan7782]

Wonderful information all! I love the personal experience too, that's what I am after. I do not have meat birds at this time, just a laying flock, but I would love to raise some at a time when I am able. This is helping me a lot with my paper due for my Ag Buisness class!

I have another question if anybody can gander a guess.

What time frame has the raising and producing of meat birds changed so drastically? From small farms to huge warehouses and factory farming. Last 100 years? 200 years? Throw out any ideas and thanks again!

 

[Brunty_Farms]

It started in the 50's so it would have been the last 60 years, however the last 20 have been the most successful or the most "scary" depending on who you talk to.

 

[SpringChickens]

Quote:
Sounds about right to me