Fowl pox or peck wound?

[Eggcessive]

I would , since we are not vets and it may help with irritation. Here is a picture of a type of skin cancer in chickens called squamous cell cancer which can occur in different areas of the body:
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/multimedia/image/squamous-cell-carcinoma-corneoconjunctiva-cattle

 

[Eggcessive]

I am going to tag @microchick to ask if she or her husband has any thoughts on the eye in post 13, third picture? It has been there for a couple of weeks and is getting larger under the lower eyelid.

 

[FeatheredFriends&Horses2]

If it is cancer, as I suspect it is, it is very rapidly growing. If it’s an option, you could see if a vet would remove it and that may solve the problem. However, I know that’s not an option everyone has. I’d leave it be for now and just keep watch on it. Should it rapidly progress and completely cover up the eye, it may be best to cull her if you can’t have it removed as it’s just going to keep growing and hinder her quality of life. There's also a third option if you feel comfortable doing it, and that would be to try to remove the growth yourself (at least the big mass, by the looks of it you'd have a hard time with the smaller one). I also know that many people would not be comfortable doing that, so I would certainly understand if you did not want to try it. If you did though, here is how I would do it:
Supplies:

• From Valley Vet
  • 25 G x 5/8" needle
  • 1 cc syringe
  • 20 cc syringe
  • Scalpel
  • Dust-On
• From Walmart
  • Bactine Max (4% Lidocaine)
• On-hand or from the store
  • Q-tips
  • Gauze
  • Tweezers

Procedure: As a note, for a local anesthetic I would mix my own anesthetic using Bactine Max, one of the active ingredients being lidocaine. Now some people on here will jump all over you at the mention of lidocaine and for good reason. It is toxic to birds... at a certain amount, as is everything. It is safe to administer lidocaine to poultry at 4 mg/kg, and there are studies that show you can safely administer even higher doses.. At your bird's estimated weight, the mixture I list below should be safe if mixed and administered properly. This should provide some pain relief during the procedure.

1. Start with a calm, settled bird.
2. Mix local anesthetic
   1. Draw 20 cc of Bactine Max and place into a jar. Mix in 80 cc of water. Mix well.
3. Clean eyelid area with rubbing alcohol using Q-tips. Don't get in eye.
4. Put a 22 G 3/4" needle on a 1 cc syringe and draw up 0.45 cc of your mixed solution. DO NOT USE ANYMORE!
   1. Hold the bird very steady. Lift up gently on the eyelid with tweezers, and slide the tip of the needle right under the skin moving parallel to the eye right underneath the major mass (don't pierce down and deeply, you DO NOT want to hit the eye). You just want to get right under the first couple layers of skin, not deep at all. Inject the solution slowly and steadily. If the bird will tolerate it, 2 sticks with about half of the solution injected on opposing sides of the growth would be better than 1 stick with all the solution injected.
5. Using tweezers gently pick up the mass and use your scalpel to cut parallel to the eye removing the mass. You do not want to remove a big chunk of the eyelid, just the mass.
6. Immediately soak up blood with gauze and use a Q-tip to gently dab Dust-On onto the cut (try not to get in eye). Once it scabs it should heal right up.
7. Once the bleeding is pretty well stopped, apply non pain-relieving triple antibiotic to the cut (try not to get in eye).

Even if you do end up removing the mass, if it is cancer, there is a chance it will grow right back, so keep that in mind. Especially since I'm not sure you'd be able to remove the smaller bump below it.

EDIT TO ADD: The lidocaine solution dosage I gave is for a 0.9 kg bird. Probably a bit light, but better safe than sorry.

 

[Bkaye]

Thanks guys. I hate this for her especially since she is so young. I I’m just going to keep doing what I’m doing and go from there. Unfortunately vet care is not an option. No one around me will see chickens. I had to isolate her this morning. I saw a few of them pecking at her eye. It looks about the same today.

 

[Eggcessive]

Do you have a wire dog crate where you can put food and water, and keep her with her flock? I would put some antibiotic ointment daily on the lesion. Please update this thread, and let us know what happens, if it gets better or worse. If you lose her or put her down, you can contact your state vet to perform a necropsy, and probably get a diagnosis. We are not vets here, so we can just offer opinions about what we see. Here is a list of state vets ro contact and get a necropsy, or even ask if you can email some pictures for an opinion:
https://www.metzerfarms.com/poultry-labs.html

 

[Bkaye]

Thanks, I do have her in a rabbit cage out with the flock. I’ll keep updating the thread. I’m still hoping that maybe it’s a peck wound that has gotten infected but I know the chances of that are getting slim.

 

[microchick]

Hi Bkaye. Oh my, that does look Owie! Poor baby.

At first I thought that was on her outer eyelid but on pic #13 it is clearly on her dictating membrane.

Only advice I would add is to apply warm moist soaks to her eye as often as she will allow. I've had a lot of roosters with eye injuries due to them being well, roosters and they have all been pretty agreeable to allowing me to do this.

Hopefully the soaks will allow you to get the scabs softened and removed with a q'tip. Once removed you will be able to better access what is going on. If there is an infection there you will be able to gently express fluid or solid pus from the lump with the q'tip.

Your pictures are excellent BTW. Good job!

There is the possibility that it is a tumor/s of some sort also although the lumps do appear to be whitish yellow under the skin. Personally I wouldn't go messing around with home surgery around the eye even with my husband supervising the procedure. Tumors can be highly vascular and bleed like Billy Blue Blazes if you cut into them plus the eyelid is highly vascular all by itself. That close to the eye trying to control bleeding with styptic powder on a squirming unhappy bird is just to risky IMHO. You don't want to blind her.

You are doing the right thing using the antibiotic ointment on it. Do you have any oral antibiotics laying around? If you do and you are good at math you can look up the recommended dosage for humans and titrate it down for chicken use. It will take a surprisingly small amount to treat her using an oral agent, giving her a tiny dose daily along with a probiotic. Not any vets around me that will treat a chicken so I've learned to be competent with DIY treatments.

As for the possibility of an infection, when you get the scabbing off, if you can gently apply pressure with a q-tip at the bottom of the mass and roll the q-tip in and up, you may be able to get it out through the opening you have created by getting the scabbing off.. I have done this with cockerels with eye injuries and expressed an amazing amount of solid pus from their swollen eyelids. Surprisingly, they hold very still for me to do this and are visibly relieved with the pressure is off their eye.

You are doing an excellent job with this and time will tell what you are dealing with. The warm moist packs (warm not hot) will also, IF you are dealing with an infection, help bring it to a head for you to work with. Keep using the ointment as often as you can smear it on her. If she has an injury under the eye lid it will melt and get between lid and eye. It looks like to me that she has been scratching at it and abraded the skin with a claw.

Sure hope I've helped and she gets better.

Thanks for the tag, @Eggcessive

 

[Bkaye]

Thanks @microchick this is extremely helpful. I’ll grab her and see if she will let me do a warm compress on her eye. This gives me hope. I’ll work with her a lot today and see if I can get those scabs to loosen up while I’m home.

I have quite a bit of antibiotics on hand. I’ve tried to stock up as I’ve seen other reccomend on different threads. I’m in the mindset I’d rather have them and not need them than need them and it take days to get them in. Not sure which will be best to give her. In pill form I have Smz/Tmp 800mg, doxycline 100mg, amoxicillin 250mg. In powder I also have doxyxline 20%, tylosin powder, and trimethoprim/sulfa powder. I also have enroflaxin 10% liquid.

As for scratching I know she is scratching and I suspected was irritating it due to that. I’ve watched her continuously scratch but not sure of a way to keep her from doing so.

In your experience and dealing with your roosters which antibiotic do you think would be best to use?

For now I’ll do the soak and work on getting the scab off. Again thank you so much for all your help.

 

[microchick]

I'd go with the Amoxi. I have it on hand along with tetracycline and clindamycin. You want to use a broad spectrum antibiotic so go with the Amoxicillin. Look up the dosage per weight. They usually give it in MG/Kg. She's a tiny little thing so you are looking at a tiny little dosage for her.

My cockerels are surprisingly tolerant of the warm moist soaks. I just held them on my lap when I did them. If she struggles too much wrap her in a towel to settle her down with just her head sticking out. I have old English game bantams that have a touch of regular game bird in them. Little devils are always trying to kill one another when they come into their hormones. I have what I call the "one eyed rooster club" as about half of them have lost an eye due to fighting. Eyelid infections are generally easy to deal with. If she does have an infection/abscess or abscesses there you should be able to eventually express the hard puss out of them. I had a rooster with a swollen lower outer lid that I was treating and eventually the hard pus started coming out of the eye lid on its own. When I gently pressed on the area a long quarter inch ribbon of hard pus came out of it. Once the pus was out, I kept up the antibiotic treatment for a couple of days and he was fine.

I suspected that she was scratching it also by the location and shape of the scabs. I'm wondering if a chicken can wear a 'cone of shame' like a dog or cat. Anybody?

Concerning to me is the fact that there are two lumps there now. Like I said, time will tell. If she doesn't respond to treatment then there is that distinct possibility that you are dealing with what was mentioned, a fast growing tumor. Then you will have to make some hard decisions unless you have a vet nearby willing to treat chickens.

I don't remember if I've read in your posts how her weight is doing? Is she overly thin? Eating like a moose as most her age do and not gaining weight? If so you could be looking at a cancer.

 

[Bkaye]

I have not weighed her. She eats like crazy and I don’t think she’s lost weight judging by her keel bone.

I was able to remove one of the scabs, the one on the single bump further down. It was nothing but pink tissue underneath and when squeezed blood came out….not what I was hoping to see. My husband helped and was able to remove part of the upper scab and again it was pink tissue and bloody.

At this point I’m not sure that it’s worth trying to do the amox.

Below is a pic of the scab from the lower bump that was removed.