Free range or enclosed run?

[centrarchid]

I'm sure my run is terrible, but it's still better than pretty much every run I've seen here on BYC. It's comparatively enormous, some thousand square feet of dirt for around 10 chickens. It has bushes and a little hut to hide in, roosts to jump up on, and a roof-covered dust-bathing area.

I think that for a run to count as "non-terrible" by a chicken, it has to be at least an acre big.

Treats? How do you keep them from eating all the treats at once?



I don't get it. Don't you have a gate that you can open in the run itself? Do you have to open the coop door?

Why will they be more dry in the run than outside? Is your run totally covered?

Mine stay under the roof or bushes in the run... Or underneath any of the numerous hiding spots outside the run, such as the cars, the human houses, the porch, or any of the numerous bushes in the yard or woods. Point is, if the get uncomfortably wet, they can decide themselves whether to hide under something or not. Point is, there's no need to lock them up in order for them to hide under something.

Or, what, you only have dry hiding spots inside the run?

I should have read entire thread more thoroughly before making first post. You are being unpleasant and not doing a good job of providing insight.

When it comes to assessing happiness in the chickens, I do not know how to do it. Nor have I encountered any studies on the subject. I am certain chickens do have emotions but do not know enough to try and coerce others into changing how they keep chickens based in mental state of chickens alone.

 

[Henrik Petersson]

Respectfully, you seem to have some special, rare insight into the chicken mind than do most of us. Not at all. Been a lot of talk about their feelings and their cravings and behaviors. The question was do we free range or confine. It was an opinion poll, and as such there were no “wrong answers”. Some of us do one, some do the other, and some of us do both, depending on our individual situations and personal comfort zone.

Yet phrases like “no-brainer” and “question that person’s sanity” keep finding their way into your responses, along with a tone that varies from over critical to downright condescending. Thinly veiled insults to our intelligence aren’t flying well with me. The OP asked for what we do and why, and we gave the most complete answers, depending on our methods.

I don’t have to keep my chickens occupied all day. I don’t have to respond to what they demand unless their food or water is empty. I have never had them standing in a group in the run clamoring to be let out, nor heard a loud racket coming from them until the outside door is opened. And when it is opened, some go out, some stay in, they switch off, or they go in and out during the day. For long periods when I have to chose confinement, such as when we are out of town or I’m having a bad day medically, they are content with the boredom busters I provide. Bad weather means nothing here - if I’m physically able, the people door is left open when I do chores regardless of weather and they can go out or not, it’s up to them.

There are a few of us on this thread who have somewhat unorthodox chicken husbandry methods. I am one of them. It’s not a deliberate attempt to shock others when I speak of those methods. It’s just how I choose to raise them. My chicks are not raised indoors with a heat lamp for weeks on end, they are raised outdoors in a pen in the run among the adults using a heating pad. They are off all heat at 3 weeks old and fully integrated with the flock by 4 weeks and the brooder pen is completely removed.

I don’t tell people they HAVE to do it this way - I don’t have that right. But I do let them know the when, what, whys, and hows of this method, stressing that I know it’s not for everyone and that that’s just fine! I am raising chickens, not lap dogs, divas, or spoiled pets who make demands of me that I’m obligated to meet. I don’t question their sanity or tell them that doing it my way is a no brainer. It works super well for me, I’m always glad to share the method, and if someone asks for more information I am happy to provide it. What they choose to do with the answers to their questions is entirely - and I mean entirely - up to them. with no insults from me.

All that said, this thread seems to have devolved in a “my way or the highway” direction. So I’ve said my piece, and I’m stopping. The OP never intended to open a can of worms with a simple opinion poll, and I’ve fed into it long enough. I know where the “unwatch” button is and before I get my patties smacked I’m going to exercise that option. Everyone have a good day.

Slow down there, no need to read things that I haven't said into my messages.

I didn't question the sanity of people who don't free-range. I question the sanity of people who don't feel a pang of guilt when their chickens are screaming to get out or standing by the fence with meaningful looks in their eyes. That's quite a big difference, isn't it? And you've never even experienced chickens screaming to get out or standing by the fence waiting to be let out, so you're obviously not even among the very narrow group of people that I was talking about, so I don't see why you would take offense.

Also, I've never once said it was a no-brainer that free-ranging was better. I said it's a no-brainer that the chickens are not happier when the opportunity to go outside the run is taken away from them. And since you or anyone else haven't contested that, I take it that you agree. No need to get all feisty and claim that I'm insulting your intelligence when it's clear to anyone who actually reads what I say that I haven't done that.

Sure, I can buy that chickens can be equally happy cooped up as free-ranging. What I contested was the one particular quote "some people claim that chickens are happier cooped up than free-ranging". The implication of that is that the chickens would be less happy if you simply opened the door to the coop and gave them the opportunity to roam free, should they want to.

That's the one specific claim I was contesting. It's not my problem if people like you misconstrue that as "people who don't free-range are insane and stupid".

And yes, I know it didn't specifically have anything to do with the OP's question. Threads go off on tangents sometimes, big deal. I for one think that makes the forum more interesting.

 

[Henrik Petersson]

I should have read entire thread more thoroughly before making first post. You are being unpleasant and not doing a good job of providing insight.

When it comes to assessing happiness in the chickens, I do not know how to do it. Nor have I encountered any studies on the subject. I am certain chickens do have emotions but do not know enough to try and coerce others into changing how they keep chickens based in mental state of chickens alone.

Seems like my previous post applies to you too.

 

[centrarchid]

Seems like my previous post applies to you too.

I think my chickens are happier than your chickens. I know they are happier than you.

 

[Henrik Petersson]

I think my chickens are happier than your chickens. I know they are happier than you.

You're probably correct. It does make me unhappy to be misunderstood and misquoted.

 

[townchicks]

And since you or anyone else haven't contested that,

Oh, but I did contest that. I have given my chickens the opportunity. One chooses not to go out at all, one will venture out a few feet for a few minutes, and one follows me around begging for treats. I do not think my chickens are an anomaly, I think they are comfortable and happy where they are. And in answer to the OP's question, my chickens are noisy when they are laying. Right now they are very quiet. Same with my neighbors chickens, who have the full access to a very large backyard.

 

[Henrik Petersson]

Oh, but I did contest that. I have given my chickens the opportunity. One chooses not to go out at all, one will venture out a few feet for a few minutes, and one follows me around begging for treats. I do not think my chickens are an anomaly, I think they are comfortable and happy where they are. And in answer to the OP's question, my chickens are noisy when they are laying. Right now they are very quiet. Same with my neighbors chickens, who have the full access to a very large backyard.

Surely you're not suggesting that they would be less happy if you merely opened the door to the run? And gave them the opportunity to stay in or out at their own leisure?

 

[centrarchid]

Surely you're not suggesting that they would be less happy if you merely opened the door to the run? And gave them the opportunity to stay in or out at their own leisure?

Find a way for us to unambiguously measure happiness in chickens.

I have three hens with total free-range access. Another 60 birds that were just released released for the day and they will go back to their respective pens tonight that will be locked down. The latter group gets only about 30 to 60 minutes at the end of each day when photoperiod short to free-range, except on weekends and holidays. How I measure a behavior that corresponds with happiness, or not, that can be related to other poultry keepers? What weight do I put on a stag / cockerel that lives up among free-range dogs near the house?

 

[Henrik Petersson]

Find a way for us to unambiguously measure happiness in chickens.

I have three hens with total free-range access. Another 60 birds that were just released released for the day and they will go back to their respective pens tonight that will be locked down. The latter group gets only about 30 to 60 minutes at the end of each day when photoperiod short to free-range, except on weekends and holidays. How I measure a behavior that corresponds with happiness, or not, that can be related to other poultry keepers? What weight do I put on a stag / cockerel that lives up among free-range dogs near the house?

Let me phrase it this way. What would be the logic behind chickens being happier when the door to the pen is closed than when it's open?

I'm told that pet snakes are happier when their terrarium isn't too big. This is counter-intuitive, but the logic behind it is that the snake feels more secure that way.

Is there a similar logic behind the notion that chickens would be happier without the ability to move freely? Do they think it's scary when the pen door is open?

 

[centrarchid]

Let me phrase it this way. What would be the logic behind chickens being happier when the door to the pen is closed than when it's open?

I'm told that pet snakes are happier when their terrarium isn't too big. This is counter-intuitive, but the logic behind it is that the snake feels more secure that way.

Is there a similar logic behind the notion that chickens would be happier without the ability to move freely? Do they think it's scary when the pen door is open?

I want logic to back up what I think, not someone's opinion. Give me something substantive that can be measured. Thus far I have no reason to conclude you have a window that is any better than mine as to how chickens think.