Free rein feeding method

[U_Stormcrow]

Plenty of plants with complete amino acid profiles..

cannabis seeds, millet, chlorella, quinoa, seaweed, farrow, stinging nettle, buckwheat, edamame, amaranth, chia seeds, spirulina...
Teff has 8 of 9, not bad going for a grain.

Not sure why the above claims edamame and quinoa are incomplete, not the sort of thing you’d expect mixed opinion over. I’ll double check my sources.

Quinoa..
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/food-features/quinoa/
‘Unlike some plant proteins, quinoa is a complete protein, meaning that it contains all nine essential amino acids’

Edamame..
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/280285
‘Complete protein: As with meat and dairy products, it provides all the essential amino acids’

With plant sources, you are looking for three things:

A) signioficant amounts of all of the key Aminos
B) in roughly the correct ratios. There are plenty of plants with Met, for instance - but almost none of them have roughly half as much Met as Lys.
C) with enough protein overall that it can be considered a reasonable source on the first place.

Edamame is soy - probably the most animal-protein like of the common veg.

and yes, some of the "near grains" which remain staples in less developed countries generally fare better than the modern grains like corn and wheat. We (humans) spent a lot of time increasing the size of the grain to something easier to harvest, and lost some things along the way.

 

[Ital]

Will you please do me a huge favor and take a picture of this mixture of stuff you are offering...all mixed up...in the quail cage?

Thanks for the link, garlic removed.

 

[Kiki]

View attachment 3537632
Thanks for the link, garlic removed.

Thanks man!

 

[Ital]

@U_Stormcrow

almost none of them have roughly half as much Met as Lys.’

I found massive variation with the aa levels for soya but it’s usually between 2:1 and 3:1 lys:met, similar to quinoa and seeds from most varieties of cannabis which is probably the best of the 3 because it’s so easily digested. Buckwheat is around 4:1, amaranth is closest to 2:1.

Teff and millet buffer it the other way, could be why millets been a popular choice so far with all the buckwheat I’ve been giving them.

Maybe they’re getting too much lys and not enough met?
I’ll add teff and quinoa to the menu tomorrow to see which they prefer.

I’ve got some organic soya flakes but would rather not use them unless I need to because I’d like the method to be easily replicable and non gmo soya isn’t easy to find.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@U_Stormcrow

I found massive variation with the aa levels for soya but it’s usually between 2:1 and 3:1 lys:met, similar to quinoa and seeds from most varieties of cannabis which is probably the best of the 3 because it’s so easily digested. Buckwheat is around 4:1, amaranth is closest to 2:1.

Teff and millet buffer it the other way, could be why millets been a popular choice so far with all the buckwheat I’ve been giving them.

Maybe they’re getting too much lys and not enough met?
I’ll add teff and quinoa to the menu tomorrow to see which they prefer.

I’ve got some organic soya flakes but would rather not use them unless I need to because I’d like the method to be easily replicable and non gmo soya isn’t easy to find.

Always huge variation in agricultural products, some more than others, based on a host of factors. Met is the most important (and hardest to obtain in plant sources). Yes, you ultimately end up needing more Lys, and the "ideal protein" is based around Lys ratios (because at the time it arose as a popular concept, Met couldn't be measured directly) - i don't dispute that.

Met is like the "engine" on a train. EVERY protein starts with Met - its like the train engine getting all the boxcars assembled. the final train being your completely assembled protein. And just like a train, the engine (Met) can decouple and go start making another train of boxcars (other AAs) - and it frequently does. But at the end of the day, if all your available Met is used up, it doesn't matter how much Thre, Lys, Tryp, Ala, Taur, and all the rest are sitting in the yard - no more trains are being assembled.

 

[Ital]

Always huge variation in agricultural products, some more than others, based on a host of factors. Met is the most important (and hardest to obtain in plant sources). Yes, you ultimately end up needing more Lys, and the "ideal protein" is based around Lys ratios (because at the time it arose as a popular concept, Met couldn't be measured directly) - i don't dispute that.

Met is like the "engine" on a train. EVERY protein starts with Met - its like the train engine getting all the boxcars assembled. the final train being your completely assembled protein. And just like a train, the engine (Met) can decouple and go start making another train of boxcars (other AAs) - and it frequently does. But at the end of the day, if all your available Met is used up, it doesn't matter how much Thre, Lys, Tryp, Ala, Taur, and all the rest are sitting in the yard - no more trains are being assembled.

This explains why the chlorella, cannabis and chia seeds are so popular.

Spirulina won the ‘my food data’ no.1 spot out of 200 plants highest in met with 1149mg per 100g met and 3025mg lys! They must not have included chlorella which beats it with 1240mg met 3140mg lys!! Total protein 60.7g per 100g!!!

For comparison, sprouted raw soya beans on ‘my food data’ ranked 16th for met content at 138mg met 752mg lys.

I wish I'd started with the full range of ingredients now, the sesame seeds and chilli should help but hopefully the chlorella made up for anything that was lacking.

 

[Ital]

Current menu includes..

•Mealworms
•Calciworms
•Crickets
•Cannabis seeds
•Chia seeds
•Poppy seeds
•Sesame seeds
•Hulled sunflower seeds
•Flax seeds
•Millet
•Amaranth
•Buckwheat
•Quinoa
•Teff
•Popped corn, ground and mixed with meridian yeast extract
•Chlorella
•Kelp
•Nettle
•Oregano
•Chilli flakes
•oyster shell/eggshells 50:50
•Himalayan salt
•Water with raw honey and ACV
•Plain water

 

[Ital]

Their leg bands arrived today which I was waiting for to start weighing them because they all look so similar but they just step out of them.

Does anyone know how often I should be weighing them? How much weight they should ideally be gaining? or what the best size leg band is for baby quail? @Nabiki? I got the 8mm which is obviously way too big.

I weighed them anyway as it’ll be a while now until I can get the right size leg bands.

Weights at 3 days old
1- 11.7g
2- 11.8g
3- 12.3G
4- 12.4g
5- 12.4g
6- 12.6g
7- 13.2g
8- 13.8g
9- 16g
10- 16g

Apparently leg bands aren’t great for chicks so getting some coloured food dye.

 

[Canadian Wind]

9- 16g
10- 16g

Those two are really chowing down!!!

 

[Ital]

Observations/issues

One of the smaller quail has been wiping her beak a lot so yesterday I had a closer look and the roof of her/his beak was caked in food, I dipped it in the honey and ACV solution which softened it and caused the beak to open so I was able to remove the food with some kitchen towel rolled into a point, this morning it happened again so I’ve removed the ground chia seeds which are the most likely candidate for the cause and replaced with whole seeds which appear to be equally as popular. I’ve given her/him some kefir as a nutrient boost and will keep an eye on how she/he progresses. Any advice welcome, it’s just this one bird with the problem.

Chlorella was a definite favourite initially but now they’re eating more of the other items and less of the chlorella. I found if I placed it too close to the water they would go in it with wet feet and get caked in it but 12” of shavings between it and the water has resolved the issue.

I suspect that ‘fines’ being a waste issue is specific to blended feed containing containing concentrate as it sometimes is in the bottom of a packet of crisps that’s been over seasoned, they are just as happy eating the fine particles as the larger bits.

Waste food being kicked out of the feeder hasn’t been an issue either as they seem to prefer to dig in the shavings and eat from the floor than from the containers so it quickly gets cleaned up.

All have healthy looking solid stools and are hopping around like spring chickens apart from the one with the beak issue who is soggy from from being cleaned and drying out under the heater, hopefully she/he’ll soon perk up now I’ve stopped grinding the chia.