Frizzle + Frizzle = ???

[justusnak]

I have Cochin Banty Frizzles...2 hens and a roo. Well....I was just wanting them because they are so darned cute.....and my grandson loves the " kid size eggs" Now, my question.....My hen decided to go broody..and is now on about 8 to 10 eggs...She layed them where I could not get to them. What can I expect from this hatch? Anyone? Doesnt matter really....but was just wondering..will they be frizzles or naked necks?

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

My thinking is, and you didn't ask for my opinion, you should dispose of the eggs and fix the pen so they can't hide eggs anymore.

If you want to hatch more frizzles, do it responsibly --- breed frizzle with smooth and keep your frizzle roos far away from your frizzle hens.
Again, you didn't ask for my opinion, but that is it : )

Lisa

 

[silkiepjsg]

Deb,

From what I know is that ideally you would want to breed the frizzel with a smooth feathered chicken. From that breeding you would get half frizzles, and half smooth feathers. When you breed two frizzles together, you hatch out 1/4 smooth, 1/2 frizzled, and 1/4 "super" frizzled, which looks like your poor chicken is missing some feathers, as it is a "frizzled frizzle", or a double dose of feathers gone haywire. You can see skin through the feathers, and they won't be able to fly, or sometimes even hop up to a perch.

Either way I'm sure you'll love them just the same...

I don't know where the naked necks come in....
Maybe someone could enlighten me on that...

 

[Albanydog]

Thought I would update my previous post.
My white Super Frizzle rooster with the red blotchy skin (pictured in message #11 above) died suddenly less the two months after this post. He died overnight, though he seemed as healthy as always and the bright red skin turned out to be a "normal" condition for double/super Frizzles. I learned later that it is not unusual for them to die early and suddenly and that these poor, badly bred, birds often have heart & organ issues/conditions that you can not see and their poor bodies can not handle once they reach adulthood. So for those of you who wondered if super Frizzles could live happy, healthy lives the real answer is no, they may appear healthy enough, though shy of feathers and red, blotchy skin but their hidden ailments will likely end their lives early. He never appeared to have suffered, except from the ridicule of his peers and everyone who saw him and maybe the occasional chill so I would not have culled him because we do not kill any of our animals that are not suffering, and he appeared to have a good life but I would never breed frizzle to frizzle on purpose. The mail order breeder I purchased him from obviously went for the 25% increase in the number of frizzle feahered chicks and could care less about how the animals or their owners might suffer:
* Smooth feather to Frizzle feather breeding equals an average of 50% Frizzle chicks & 50% Smooth chicks.
* Frizzle to Frizzle breeding equals an average of 75% frizzle chicks & 25% Smooth chicks, however of that 75% frizzled feathered birds, 25% of them will likely be Super or Double Frizzles with the thin feathers, red skin and other health issues, so I would never breed two frizzle feathered birds together!

I'm going to look through my records to find the breeder and write them a nasty letter about their bad breeding practices!
RIP Ugly Frizzle, I pray you had a happy life without suffering and are even happier now!

 

[justusnak]

My little bantys roost is only about 3 inches off the floor. They seem happy with that height. Hmmmm..super frizzled? Now I cant waite! About 18 days to go!

 

[aimee]

I have also heard that a "super frizzle" could have dry skin and other skin problems.

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

Hi,
Frizzle x Frizzle is not a good thing. You can expect a percentage of the offspring to look like this.

Homozygous frizzles are frizzles with 2 copies of the frizzle gene F --- like from mating Frizzle x Frizzle.

This was taken from Hutt's Genetics of the Fowl:

" Secondary Effects of F.
Since homozygous frizzles are usually more
or less naked, except when a new coat of plumage has just been acquired,
it is to be expected that loss of the normal insulation would cause some
disturbances of the physiology in such birds. These have been studied in
detail by Landauer and his associates.
Metabolism.
Benedict, Landauer, and Fox (1932) calculated that
even at 28CC. the heat production of frizzles was greater than in normal
fowls. At 170C. the difference was much more pronounced, and in some
of the homozygous frizzles the heat produced was more than twice that
of normal fowls. The loss of heat from the body surface in homozygous
frizzles was partially offset by an abnormally low heat loss from vapori-
zation of water, the amount of water thus lost being 30 to 35 gin. in 24
hours per kilogram of body weight, compared with 50 to 56 gin. in normal
fowls. The rectal temperatures of heterozygous frizzles did not differ
from ~those of normal fowls, but at environmental temperatures below
1500. the average rectal temperature for 10 homozygotes was slightly
lower than in controls. One would naturally expect the homozygous
frizzle fowls to eat more feed than normal ones in order to compensate
for their extra heat loss, and some evidence was found that they do so.
Other Effects.
In mature, homozygous frizzles, the heart is larger and
beats more rapidly than in normal fowls (Boas and Landauer, 1933,
1934). The difference in females was 72 beats per minute, an increase
of 27 per cent over the rate for normal fowls. It was attributed to the
higher rate of metabolism in frizzles. Landauer and Upham (1936) found
that in homozygous frizzles there was an increase over normal in the rela-
tive weight of the heart, blood, spleen, kidneys, adrenals, pancreas, crop,
and gizzard and in the relative capacity of the duodenum, small intes-
tine, caeca, and large intestine."


If this link works, you can go to page 107 and read more on frizzle genetics (and loads of other interesting chicken genetic stuff) .

http://chla.library.cornell.edu/cgi...19&c=chla&cc=chla&q1=mottled&seq=3&view=image

edited to add:
Lol, they may be naked neck a great part of the time, but no relation to Naked Neck (Na) gene.
Lisa

 

[justusnak]

Oh that POOR BIRD!!!! Would I be right to cull such an unfortunate bird? Or can they live healthy happy lives? Awww, so sad!! Its so ugly...but cute too!

 

[Albanydog]

Quote:
I was searching to find out about frizzled skin conditions, my frizzled rooster's skin is bright red on his lower half & legs and he has some black funk on his tail end. He has always been short on feathers and a bit ugly but this redness has him looking pretty sad. After reading your post I believe my "purebred" frizzled cochin rooster may be a super frizzled. He sleeps on the floor, can't use the roosts like our other chickens, though his roost is only about 8 inches off the floor. It sickens me to think someone would purposfully breed 2 frizzleds knowing they would get so many supers. I bought mine through a well known hatchery before I found out their purebreds are below par. I have "super" frizzle in quarantine while I figure out his skin condition. The flock and coops are regularly treated for mites and I have checked him closely and can't find any on him. He has never been a friendly bird, screams horribly when you hold him, so I am putting off giving him a bath. If anyone can point me to a site I can learn all about frizzles and his skin issues I would appreciate it. Thanks

When you are talking about breeding frizzled to smooth feathered are you talking any smooth feathered chicken or a smooth feathered frizzled? I bought a variety of bantams over the winter and haven't gotten them all separated in their own coops yet, some are still roaming free range with the rest of our flock, about 100 chickens. I have 3 frizzled chickens, one super frizzled and the other 2 are a hen and a roo that just look like beautiful white cochins. I just want to make sure I don't get any super frizzles. The smooth roo is in a chicken tractor with 3 regular cochin hens. My frizzled hen just hatched out her first clutch but we chose the eggs when we realized she was broody and they could belong to anyone. We have had broody hens hatch out about 40 or so chicks so far this year and only one chick shows any frizzle, surprising since the Super Friz is the busiest rooster we have.

 

[teresa-78]

I had a super frizzled polish hen.. unknown to me until I joined this site.. she sadly did not live a year, and died.. she had red raw skin, always looked sickly, and had bleeding from the feathers regulary.. I would never hatch any eggs from a frizzled hen, and cockeral.. as it was heartbreaking watching my hen in pain