Frontline ???

[BodhiRoc]

Hi Everyone -

I'm determined to get to the bottom of this, and luckily I have a way.

I am a professor and have access to the facilities to measure fipronil in eggs from hens on whom fipronil was administered topically.

I'm hoping to recruit folks who have their chooks on a fipronil regimen. Can you participate?

I'm hoping that people can send me eggs from chickens before, and several days after administration, plus 1 week and 2 weeks later. Info on how much Frontline was administered would be needed. Eggs can be sent frozen.

If you're willing to help push back the frontiers of science on this issue, please contact me: [email protected]. I'll give you my professional affiliation, real name, and work email after you email me. But I'm only giving out my gmail account now to avoid spam in my work email.

Thanks!
Greg

 

[Patricia Jane]

Quote:
I believe I read a thread somewhere not to use frontline plus on chickens only frontline. Can't remember why but not using frontline plus stuck in my memory.

 

[Barn Mama]

Thanks so much.....VERY helpful!

 

[Pete fernBonnie]

Frontline\\ Frontline Plus for fleas and ticks is not carried in the bloodstream! That is why it is an EPA regestered product not an FDA. If it goes in the bloodstream then it is FDA. It is carried to the oil glands by the oils on the body. I worked for the company, Merial who makes it for 11 years so i'm not just guessing. I know about all there is to know about fipronil. No harm to mamals. I have known many vets who have used the spray to treat head lice in kids. I'm not suggesting you do that but it has been done.

i really trust you and i need help i have 6 birds that are infected with mites and one setting hen that infested. i dusted the hen with DE cause i didnt want to hurt the eggs(since they are hatching a couple of days) and dusted the bedding with DE same reason. i put a newspaper down the other day and i felt a lump on my roo's rump (below the vent) i got seven and started scrubbing and piles of mites fell down onto the paper. i am freaked out and idk if the others are infected but i want to prevent it what should i do? please help asap!!!!

 

[Pete fernBonnie]

and does frontline mean the spray for the dogs and cats?

 

[dretd]

Frontline\\ Frontline Plus for fleas and ticks is not carried in the bloodstream! That is why it is an EPA regestered product not an FDA. If it goes in the bloodstream then it is FDA. It is carried to the oil glands by the oils on the body. I worked for the company, Merial who makes it for 11 years so i'm not just guessing. I know about all there is to know about fipronil. No harm to mamals. I have known many vets who have used the spray to treat head lice in kids. I'm not suggesting you do that but it has been done.

Originally Posted by Pete fernBonnie

i really trust you and i need help i have 6 birds that are infected with mites and one setting hen that infested. i dusted the hen with DE cause i didnt want to hurt the eggs(since they are hatching a couple of days) and dusted the bedding with DE same reason. i put a newspaper down the other day and i felt a lump on my roo's rump (below the vent) i got seven and started scrubbing and piles of mites fell down onto the paper. i am freaked out and idk if the others are infected but i want to prevent it what should i do? please help asap!!!!

Hi Pete fernBonnie. What type of mite do you have, specifically? There are Red Mite infestations-these guys spend time off the birds so environmental control is key. There is also a Northern Fowl Mite and they spend most of their time on the bird so treating the birds alone may be effective.

I had a terrible problem with Red Mites that my chickens picked up from wild birds. It took me quite some time to get rid of them and I can share with you what I did that finally worked, with some cautions. I am participating in Professor Greg's Fipronil study and hopefully he will be able to provide real data on egg withdrawal for fipronil.

Before I give you what worked for me, I wanted to comment on ColbyNTX's comments. It is true that Fipronyl is classified as a pesticide, meant for external control of parasites and is regulated by the EPA and not the FDA as it is not sold as a drug. Remember that DDT is a pesticide and you may recall the negative ramifications of that particular pesticide, so just because something is not regulated as a drug does not mean that it does not have potential ramifications within a body.

Like many pesticides, Fipronil binds to fat and in mammals it migrates along the skin and stays in the oil glands in the skin. Fipronil is not approved for birds and as far as I know, there are no published studies in birds (except for one listed below, efficacy only). Unlike mammals, birds do not have the sebaceous glands all over the skin as they do not have hair. They do have a large oil gland at the base of the tail. Will the Fipronil migrate over the body as it does in dogs and cats? I don't know. Will it kill mites? Yes, if it comes in to contact with them. Will it be absorbed by the chicken's skin (which is different from mammals) into the fat and egg yolk? Possibly, this needs study to comment one way or another.

My story: I found that Fipronil or Eprinex alone did not remove my mite problem. I tried both separately and the mites returned fairly quickly because I did not thoroughly treat the environment. I also dusted with DE (worthless in my opinion) and Sevin (tried once, not user-friendly for me, banned in parts of Europe and my daughter handles the hens a lot and I did not want her exposed to the dust). It is essential that you kill the little buggers in and around the hen house and run area to prevent return.

What worked:
-Treated all hens with Fipronil (without the growth regulator), once monthly for 2 months
-removed all the bedding from the henhouse.
-Used Permethrin spray concentrate ( intended for livestock and perimeter spraying) mixed as per directions into a tank sprayer and thoroughly saturated (to the point of run-off) all wood, nest boxes, run surfaces and plants/mulch. Repeated every 10 days for 2 months.
-In the henhouse (which has plenty of ventilation, I would not use if your henhouse has little air exchange) I hung one No Pest strip with Dichlorvos. This stuff is an organophosphate insecticide. It works really well, but can have negative health consequences if used not in accordance with the label. One strip will work for about 3 months.

The mites hang out in the crevices of wood. I was able to identify areas where they were at by tapping on the wood. They felt the vibrations and literally came out of the woodwork. Really gross. I was able to identify one old piece of wood the birds had been roosting on that was really infested. I had to drench that wood, all sides to get in the crannies but it did eliminate the problem for me.

There is a fipronil spray intended for dogs and cats. I used the top-spot treatment, withdrawing what I needed with a needle and syringe then sealing the hole with several layers of white-out. I read a study a while back where the spray was used to treat mites in a flock in South America with success--Here is a link to the product: http://en.engormix.com/agrovet-market/gallonil-spray-sh465_pr977.htm It is marketed to fighting cocks so no drug withdrawal were needed/done. Here's the original study but its in Portuguese http://www.agrovetmarket.com/pdf/an...ajo de Campo/Ectonil Pour On Aves Combate.pdf (you can Google translate it if interested)

One last idea: I bought a steamer but never had to use it since the above regime worked. If you have infestations of pests that hang out off the host (bed bugs, fleas, some mites) you can use a powerful steamer to penetrate in to the areas where they lurk to kill them and their eggs and larvae. This might be an alternative to the perimeter spray if you are someone that wants to minimize their use of pesticides.

 

[Barn Mama]

One of my birds had scaley leg mites and lice .....I smotherd her feet in vasoline twice a day for a week then once a week for a week, also bought frontline for large dogs, 2 drops per bird one on top of bird on the skin and one underneath but not to close to the vent. Cleaned out the coop completely; floor and nests, throw down some DE or dry kill. Mix 1 part lineseed oil and 1 part kerosene and with a paint brush, brush all the insides of the nests and the perch. I am mite and lice free ........for now!

 

[Barn Mama]

The medication is subcutaneous so it is absorbed by the skin, it wont affect the egg.

 

[Michael Apple]

I see some confusion on this thread regarding Frontline. The spray bottle is what I've used, not the concentrate single dose tubes. It worked very well in the past when I needed it for mites. A little spritz below the vent, mid-back, and base of neck was all I needed. No re-treatment at 10 days either.

 

[dretd]

One of my birds had scaley leg mites and lice .....I smotherd her feet in vasoline twice a day for a week then once a week for a week, also bought frontline for large dogs, 2 drops per bird one on top of bird on the skin and one underneath but not to close to the vent. Cleaned out the coop completely; floor and nests, throw down some DE or dry kill. Mix 1 part lineseed oil and 1 part kerosene and with a paint brush, brush all the insides of the nests and the perch. I am mite and lice free ........for now!

You a lucky as lice and scaly leg mites spend most of their time on the chickens. The lice lay eggs on the chickens so as they hatch, you will need to re-treat.

The medication is subcutaneous so it is absorbed by the skin, it wont affect the egg.

Not sure which medicine you are referring to as being subcutaneous? Subcutaneous means under the skin and is usually dispensed by injection, under the skin. Many drugs and pesticides that are applied to the skin topically can be absorbed through the skin or accidentally ingested if the compound come in to contact with the mouth--such as chickens preening themselves. If you are talking about Frontline, it is lipophilic so it 'likes' fat. Egg yolks are made of large amounts of fat so there is a possibility that some of the Frontline could accumulate in the yolk if it found its way inside the chickens body. Personally I would pitch the first few eggs laid by a chicken after treatment with Frontline.