Game rooster behavior and fighting

[roosterhavoc]

Could you point out some instances of misinformation? I'd like to be able to understand, without having to fine-comb through multiple posts.

If you’re interested in gamefowl do some research on them and then come back and read this thread. You’ll find it all easy enough.

 

[ElizaMay]

If you’re interested in gamefowl do some research on them and then come back and read this thread. You’ll find it all easy enough.

Sorry, no.
The individual stating another is posting incorrect information should expect to have to at least point at the error - true educators interested in helping others (and not just poking) may also cite or provide a link to more accurate information.
I don't require a link or a long dissertation, but I expect to know what is being pointed as wrong, so I can then research that fact - I do not want to have to take a course on the breed; that is not 'easy enough'
There is more than enough online criticism.
If a person can call something wrong, they can point out what they are calling wrong, at least. Many of us are at BYC to learn from those who already know specifics, not spend hours in the google or brick and mortar library.

 

[roosterhavoc]

They are bred for strength and stamina, it is not ingrained in their DNA to kill at all costs, that is trained. Just like pit bulls, it's not the animal. There are some aggressive outliers with any breed of chicken, and yes, they usually have to be culled.

@Nashv755 Is the 2 year old, "top dog" rooster you mentioned no longer around? Remember they're full of hormones and pent up frustration right now. Even non-game cockerels will do this. I have probably 20 cockerels in the yard right now, all alpha roosters have passed away in the last two months, as well as my alpha hens, and there's a power vacuum. I have two giant brothers that are EE/Barred Rock mix that do and take what they want, but have no need to go after anyone, because they're the biggest. Most of the other cockerels are fine staying out of the way, but I have one group of 5 Spitzhauben cockerels that are doing this with each other. One has decided that since he can't win with his brothers, my dog is his target. My dog poops bigger than him. The Spitz boys have gotten into a couple of good scuffles, as did my previous 3 alpha roosters, but they eventually worked it all out once the girls started willingly pairing up with them. If it's normal teenage angst, your cockerel should be chasing around the girls relentlessly too, just watch for the other boys to join in the chase, because they all help each other out when it comes to being little crapheads like that.

There are a couple of options:

If there's not a strong enough alpha rooster in his mind in your flock, he wants that job, and he's making sure everyone else knows it and submits, regardless of their seniority or breed. If he has nasty spurs, trim/dull them and monitor his hostile takeover for a few days and see if once he's made the rounds a few times, he settles down. If you have fragile breed roosters, get them out of there for a few days.

You could put him in rooster jail for a few days (a wire dog crate in the run with everyone else able to stand around). I've never had to for more than a few hours, but even my wildtype breeds are closer to jungle fowl than gamefowl in their heritage. Monitor them, if he's fighting with anyone through the bars, decide whether it's just him and he'll either calm down or becomes dinner, or put another one in another jail if there seems to be an instigator you weren't aware of.

If that fails, you may have to separate him from the flock entirely while another rooster becomes alpha. Then you can try to reintegrate him (sneak him in at night) and see if Alpha will give him a place in the group.

Make sure you're asserting yourself as the ultimate Alpha at all times. He should get out of your way when you walk through, don't let him make you move; he should be easy for you to handle (catching is a different story!); watch for him being a creeper and spin and face him if he's more than just curious.

All that said, if he becomes aggressive toward you or another human - send him to be judged by the Queen of Hearts. Even gamefowl breeders cull manfighters without prejudice. You can chose to give him the time to mature and prove that he's not one, or you can make the call to stop the problem at the first sign, just don't ignore the responsibility to dispatch him if you have to.

If you choose to get rid of him, you know who will answer the ad first. If you don't want that to happen, I suggest reaching out to the local humane society or asking at the local feed store for some assistance with finding a suitable home. There are plenty of legitimate, responsible, and respectable gamefowl owners out there that may be interested.

Remember high school? You stepped in like the Principal and the other guy laughed at him. Hormones, teenagers, different species, same song and dance.

I just heard the Spitz boys outside the window causing some trouble for the fine folk of Hazzard County, I'd better go investigate. (I know they're up to no good when there's constant crowing, then some commotion, then silence, then ducks. The ducks are snitches.)

@ElizaMay it’s pretty much this whole post comparing gamefowl to regular layer breed roosters. There’s way more to it than just being bigger. Game cocks don’t care how big another rooster is. It’s all about territory and females. They’ve been selectively bred for an extremely long time leaving us with birds that are extremely aggressive, territorial and extremely intelligent (for a chicken).
The owner being the *alpha doesn’t work either. They’ll beat your legs off if you mistreat them or act aggressively toward them. They don’t care how big you are. The keeper should just be the person bringing food and messing with their shelter nothing more.
Comparing gamefowl to pit bulls is also wrong. Chickens aren’t trained like a dog. It’s in their genetics. I could go on and on but I don’t feel the need to.
If you’re truly interested in learning something it’s up to you to learn. Expecting someone else to teach you is an entitled mentality. Good day.

 

[Tankueray]

@Nashv755
I couldn't find anything linking the curled under digits to a genetic disorder, so that's good. It's still possible that it's genetic, but less probable than environmental. Being that they're such large birds, I suspect that they have different nutrient requirements. The nutrient tables that we generally work from are based on studies of commercial broilers and layers for the most part, and sometimes there's a footnote for a specific utility breed.

Since Greenfire has them, it might be worth an email to them to ask if they feed their breeders any special diet based on their larger size. As long as you don't email them on hatch day, they're usually pretty good at getting back to you quickly. Or call, I'm sure they'd be okay with that too.

It's probably too late to fix if it were a deficiency from the egg, but you can still put them on a vitamin supplement for 2-4 weeks and it won't hurt. If you already have one of the TSC chicken vitamin supplements at home, you can use that, just to help get rid of it.

• Liquid form dropped onto food as directed (usually a few drops on top, per 6-8oz of food), or;
• Powdered form in water - only 1-2x per week (as in, mix 1-2 gallons per directions per week). The water vitamins, especially if they also have electrolytes, have a lot of salts in them. Overdoing salt creates its own problems, or;
• Rooster Booster Poultry Booster pelleted top dressing supplement, as directed.
• Also split a can of tuna between the two of them once a week.

If you don't already have vitamins and you want to mix something up for everyone (I'm going with Tractor Supply availability here):

• 40lb. bag of Nutrena All Flock
• 10lb. bag of Calf Manna or Super Spur if you've got a fancy feed store (this is more than usual, but won't hurt for a one time batch of feed.)
• 50lb. bag of racing pigeon mix (usually has corn and different types of peas, sometimes black oil sunflower seeds).
  • If you can't find that, look for Hi-Spirit Gamebird Maintenance (pic below) or the DuMOR 5 grain scratch 30lb. bag (my least favorite option).
  • Scratch that, the DuMOR 6-grain non GMO scratch has peas, and is a dollar cheaper for 5 more pounds.
• So that makes 80-100lbs of vitamin enriched feed that you can use for the whole flock until it runs out. Still split the tuna can with them once a week.
  

  ​

(Note to spectators: Feeding anything other than crumble obviously requires real, store bought grit to be available free choice. Also oyster shells if you've got hens laying, as the all flock doesn't have enough Calcium.)

And this is out of left field, but there is some evidence out there that whole oats reduce behaviors like roost bullying and picking at each other. That non-GMO scratch has whole oats and other whole grains. Maybe it'll mellow Highlander out a little , but otherwise all those unprocessed grains are good for prevention of worms.

Additional notes and explanations:
If it were a riboflavin deficiency at hatch, which causes curled toe paralysis (something completely different from chicks hatching with curled toes that go sideways and can be fixed with tape), neither bird would've survived this long without treatment. My guess is that if it is related to a nutrient deficiency, it's because of their size and breed, and not their feed, as the whole flock isn't affected. The most common nutrients that become deficient are Vitamin A, D, and Riboflavin; but some of these new feeds that cater to the owner and not the animal are lacking in things like animal protein, and some feed companies are guilty of switching out cheaper ingredients that provide less nutrition. So, I just put together something that will cover all of the bases and not single out any particular nutrients, as the birds are not suffering an acute deficiency based on the information provided.

Calf Manna is not recommended for long-term supplementation at more than 2-5% normally (for poultry) because it's high in milk proteins, which can cause fat deposits on internal organs and lead to premature death. There are better products out there for around the same price, specifically made for poultry, but TSC doesn't carry them.

The scratch mix option lowers the protein to around 15.65%, so they're going to probably eat more (and you might think this is going to get expensive!) - that's okay for one batch, specifically because it's winter and they need less protein and more carbs to keep warm. If you want to keep going with your own feed, I can help with that or refer you to a poultry nutritionist if you want to get really nerdy.

Since I already have a dog who eats Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream (or 4Health Salmon and Potato), I add that into my mix for animal protein and a few other things; however, it also has glucosamine and chondroitin in it, which has been shown to benefit broilers' bones and joints. If your Leige bird's toes are affected in some way by the joints and ligaments, it's possible that a little added dog food could help. That's an expensive "if" though, so I wouldn't worry about it unless you already happen to feed your dog something like that.

 

[roosterhavoc]

Curled toes is usually caused by something going wrong with incubator hatched chicks.

 

[ElizaMay]

@ElizaMay it’s pretty much this whole post comparing gamefowl to regular layer breed roosters. There’s way more to it than just being bigger. Game cocks don’t care how big another rooster is. It’s all about territory and females. They’ve been selectively bred for an extremely long time leaving us with birds that are extremely aggressive, territorial and extremely intelligent (for a chicken).
The owner being the *alpha doesn’t work either. They’ll beat your legs off if you mistreat them or act aggressively toward them. They don’t care how big you are. The keeper should just be the person bringing food and messing with their shelter nothing more.
Comparing gamefowl to pit bulls is also wrong. Chickens aren’t trained like a dog. It’s in their genetics. I could go on and on but I don’t feel the need to.
If you’re truly interested in learning something it’s up to you to learn. Expecting someone else to teach you is an entitled mentality. Good day.

I appreciated your writing up until your final paragraph.
I have ridden and trained horses for over 40 years, and I am ALWAYS willing to help and educate. I don't expect everyone to have my level of knowledge to begin. And there are some VERY obvious things that beginners fon't know, and that even more advanced riders don't.
When I speak to them,
1) I strive not to be rude.
2) I strive to not criticize or belittle people, but to provide correct information and educate.
3) Guess you are dead against the mentoring system, where someone who knows more helps you out with knowledge and encouragement...
4) Sharing knowledge and making the world a wiser, better place Is a reasonable hope, not an expectation.
5)'If you’re truly interested in learning something it’s up to you to learn'
That is absolutely ABSURD of you to say, because that is exactly what I said I WOULD do, if you could simply point out what the other person said was wrong, and then I'd go and look that fact up. Also, people LEARN BY ASKING. Or did you just pick all you know by osmosis from birth??

FACT is, I don't want to learn everything about gamefowl tonight, but I don't mind picking up a few facts here and there, and most people are reasonable and will share knowledge rather than 'hoard and lord'.

Another fact is, I found your treatment of Tanquerey in one post unreasonably rude, and that's why I began to ask questions - because it's often helpful to make someone behaving in an assininely critical way, back up what they are saying is wrong by specifically pointing it out. Put up, or shut up, so to speak.

You didn't let me down, at first you threw a 'well it's all wrong and if you knew anything you'd KNOW what I was talking about', know-it-all, crap reply at me. You finally pointed out what you disagreed with, (which seems plausible, but I have yet to research) then you shat on your good information by calling the desire to learn from others 'entitled'.
Bravo.

You know, sometimes a person just wants to know that the car is out of gas, not how to tear down an internal combustion engine.

 

[ElizaMay]

Curled toes is usually caused by something going wrong with incubator hatched chicks.

Good fact to know, I have read that before but nice to see it confirmed by others with more experience.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Yeah, I would love a liege cock but I can't spend that much money on gas with the price it is now.

I've been wanting Liege Fighters also. Thinking about taking my chance with Green Fire Farms hatching eggs someday.

 

[roosterhavoc]

I appreciated your writing up until your final paragraph.
I have ridden and trained horses for over 40 years, and I am ALWAYS willing to help and educate. I don't expect everyone to have my level of knowledge to begin. And there are some VERY obvious things that beginners fon't know, and that even more advanced riders don't.
When I speak to them,
1) I strive not to be rude.
2) I strive to not criticize or belittle people, but to provide correct information and educate.
3) Guess you are dead against the mentoring system, where someone who knows more helps you out with knowledge and encouragement...
4) Sharing knowledge and making the world a wiser, better place Is a reasonable hope, not an expectation.
5)'If you’re truly interested in learning something it’s up to you to learn'
That is absolutely ABSURD of you to say, because that is exactly what I said I WOULD do, if you could simply point out what the other person said was wrong, and then I'd go and look that fact up. Also, people LEARN BY ASKING. Or did you just pick all you know by osmosis from birth??

FACT is, I don't want to learn everything about gamefowl tonight, but I don't mind picking up a few facts here and there, and most people are reasonable and will share knowledge rather than 'hoard and lord'.

Another fact is, I found your treatment of Tanquerey in one post unreasonably rude, and that's why I began to ask questions - because it's often helpful to make someone behaving in an assininely critical way, back up what they are saying is wrong by specifically pointing it out. Put up, or shut up, so to speak.

You didn't let me down, at first you threw a 'well it's all wrong and if you knew anything you'd KNOW what I was talking about', know-it-all, crap reply at me. You finally pointed out what you disagreed with, (which seems plausible, but I have yet to research) then you shat on your good information by calling the desire to learn from others 'entitled'.
Bravo.

You know, sometimes a person just wants to know that the car is out of gas, not how to tear down an internal combustion engine.

I’m glad I could clear up some confusion for you.
This is a forum and there’s a search function that’s pretty simple to use to find all sorts of relevant information. The problem comes from people with zero actual experience just spewing whatever they’ve read or heard without actually seeing and doing for themselves. This is a common problem on here. They do this in a way to fuel their own ego and it’s ridiculous for people truly looking to learn to have to sort through an insane amount of BS. I wasn’t kidding when I said pretty much all of it was wrong.

 

[Nashv755]

I've been wanting Liege Fighters also. Thinking about taking my chance with Green Fire Farms hatching eggs someday.

I had bad luck with shipped eggs from a different breeder. Couldn't possibly be packaged any better than they were and still got beat to crap and a couple busted in the mail. Only had 1 hatch and they were nice enough to send me another 12 eggs. Same thing again but 3 of those hatched. The 2 I still have are the ones with the messed up toes

I ordered chicks this last time from Carolina pine's hatchery and been very happy with the quality over where I got the eggs from and much cheaper than Greenfire chicks.