Game rooster behavior and fighting

[MysteryChicken]

I had bad luck with shipped eggs from a different breeder. Couldn't possibly be packaged any better than they were and still got beat to crap and a couple busted in the mail. Only had 1 hatch and they were nice enough to send me another 12 eggs. Same thing again but 3 of those hatched. The 2 I still have are the ones with the messed up toes

I ordered chicks this last time from Carolina pine's hatchery and been very happy with the quality over where I got the eggs from and much cheaper than Greenfire chicks.

Haven't had that much trouble with hatching eggs. Especially broken ones.

They sell on Ebay, & I can bid a low, or reasonable price for green fire farm eggs.

I'll check them out, never heard of them.

 

[Tankueray]

@ElizaMay it’s pretty much this whole post comparing gamefowl to regular layer breed roosters. There’s way more to it than just being bigger. Game cocks don’t care how big another rooster is. It’s all about territory and females. They’ve been selectively bred for an extremely long time leaving us with birds that are extremely aggressive, territorial and extremely intelligent (for a chicken).
The owner being the *alpha doesn’t work either. They’ll beat your legs off if you mistreat them or act aggressively toward them. They don’t care how big you are. The keeper should just be the person bringing food and messing with their shelter nothing more.
Comparing gamefowl to pit bulls is also wrong. Chickens aren’t trained like a dog. It’s in their genetics. I could go on and on but I don’t feel the need to.
If you’re truly interested in learning something it’s up to you to learn. Expecting someone else to teach you is an entitled mentality. Good day.

Thank you for finally sharing your beef. It appears you read my post completely out of context of the overall thread, and if I had read the same post, I would agree with you (except for the genetics thing, you and I are talking about two different things that are unrelated and we are neither in agreement or disagreement, the terminology is being used incorrectly.) I have been working with Ag, exotic, and domestic animals all my life, and I will stand up and preach from a soapbox to anyone who thinks tigers or primates can be pets, or to anyone who blatantly writes off an entire domesticated breed as dangerous or deadly - hence my defense of gamefowl.

It was apparent from the get-go that the OP wasn't talking about normal gamefowl, just using the term, and later it was confirmed that they are an imported breed closer to jungle fowl than bonafide gamefowl. I am not ignorant in my knowledge of gamefowl, as I mentioned previously, I grew up pretty darn close to Mike Ratliff and know people that still have his lines today. I've also known people that thought they bought gamefowl and were sorely disappointed. Therefore, I wasn't going to question what the breed was, I was just going to respond based on the information given. But in the case that the birds did have real gamefowl lineage, I heavily peppered my rooster rehabilitation suggestions with things to look for that would make him impossible to break and to subsequently cull without taking a chance. You didn't pay attention to any of that and just wrote me off as someone who thinks that roosters will be nice if you just give them enough cuddles, but of course, you did that on purpose.

My personal anecdote really threw you for a curve I guess, because it had nothing to do with gamefowl, just teenage roosters in general (none of mine are layer breeds either), which I included, given that the OPs explanation of what was occurring was more indicative of non-gamefowl behavior. OP established that none of his roosters were aggressive save one.

I never compared gamefowl to layer roosters, I never said anything about aggression being about size, and I did allude to territory and females.

As far as genetics vs. training goes, I stand by what I've said more than once. The thirst for blood is not genetic. To date there has been no gene or marker identified for aggression. We know that all males within the G. gallus species are aggressive toward each other, but even the Red Junglefowl's natural behavior is to have more than one male in a flock, as it ensures survival of the offspring for multiple reasons. Their aggressive behavior is no different than many other species (including humans), and is more dependent upon hormones if you want to pin some congenital blame on it. And as I said before, I have seen flocks of gamefowl that allow more than one rooster, just because it doesn't fit into your narrow world doesn't mean it's impossible that it could exist.

Curled toes is usually caused by something going wrong with incubator hatched chicks.

Yes, I already said that. Twice.

This is not the first time that you have come into the middle of a thread that I was participating in and started trouble, for what, because you don't like me? Sure, you resent my intelligence, I already get that. You know I'm not someone with "zero actual experience," nor do I spout BS; I have no problem backing up anything I say, and I've told you that before. But it's not about me is it? You do that often on this forum. You're the one that gets pleasure from conflict and baiting people in order to "fuel your own ego," and that's evident every time you touch the keyboard. Grow up.

 

[Tankueray]

I had bad luck with shipped eggs from a different breeder. Couldn't possibly be packaged any better than they were and still got beat to crap and a couple busted in the mail. Only had 1 hatch and they were nice enough to send me another 12 eggs. Same thing again but 3 of those hatched. The 2 I still have are the ones with the messed up toes

I ordered chicks this last time from Carolina pine's hatchery and been very happy with the quality over where I got the eggs from and much cheaper than Greenfire chicks.

Haven't had that much trouble with hatching eggs. Especially broken ones.

They sell on Ebay, & I can bid a low, or reasonable price for green fire farm eggs.

I'll check them out, never heard of them.

PM'ing y'all some info shortly.

 

[roosterhavoc]

Thank you for finally sharing your beef. It appears you read my post completely out of context of the overall thread, and if I had read the same post, I would agree with you (except for the genetics thing, you and I are talking about two different things that are unrelated and we are neither in agreement or disagreement, the terminology is being used incorrectly.) I have been working with Ag, exotic, and domestic animals all my life, and I will stand up and preach from a soapbox to anyone who thinks tigers or primates can be pets, or to anyone who blatantly writes off an entire domesticated breed as dangerous or deadly - hence my defense of gamefowl.

It was apparent from the get-go that the OP wasn't talking about normal gamefowl, just using the term, and later it was confirmed that they are an imported breed closer to jungle fowl than bonafide gamefowl. I am not ignorant in my knowledge of gamefowl, as I mentioned previously, I grew up pretty darn close to Mike Ratliff and know people that still have his lines today. I've also known people that thought they bought gamefowl and were sorely disappointed. Therefore, I wasn't going to question what the breed was, I was just going to respond based on the information given. But in the case that the birds did have real gamefowl lineage, I heavily peppered my rooster rehabilitation suggestions with things to look for that would make him impossible to break and to subsequently cull without taking a chance. You didn't pay attention to any of that and just wrote me off as someone who thinks that roosters will be nice if you just give them enough cuddles, but of course, you did that on purpose.

My personal anecdote really threw you for a curve I guess, because it had nothing to do with gamefowl, just teenage roosters in general (none of mine are layer breeds either), which I included, given that the OPs explanation of what was occurring was more indicative of non-gamefowl behavior. OP established that none of his roosters were aggressive save one.

I never compared gamefowl to layer roosters, I never said anything about aggression being about size, and I did allude to territory and females.

As far as genetics vs. training goes, I stand by what I've said more than once. The thirst for blood is not genetic. To date there has been no gene or marker identified for aggression. We know that all males within the G. gallus species are aggressive toward each other, but even the Red Junglefowl's natural behavior is to have more than one male in a flock, as it ensures survival of the offspring for multiple reasons. Their aggressive behavior is no different than many other species (including humans), and is more dependent upon hormones if you want to pin some congenital blame on it. And as I said before, I have seen flocks of gamefowl that allow more than one rooster, just because it doesn't fit into your narrow world doesn't mean it's impossible that it could exist.


Yes, I already said that. Twice.

This is not the first time that you have come into the middle of a thread that I was participating in and started trouble, for what, because you don't like me? Sure, you resent my intelligence, I already get that. You know I'm not someone with "zero actual experience," nor do I spout BS; I have no problem backing up anything I say, and I've told you that before. But it's not about me is it? You do that often on this forum. You're the one that gets pleasure from conflict and baiting people in order to "fuel your own ego," and that's evident every time you touch the keyboard. Grow up.

 

[Geena]

As far as genetics vs. training goes, I stand by what I've said more than once. The thirst for blood is not genetic. To date there has been no gene or marker identified for aggression.

Real, game, Pit Bulls and gamefowl are bred specifically to fight others of their kind, it IS in their genetics. They are purpose bred from individuals that have the propensity to do so. You cannot train any animal to fight to kill unless they already have a very strong inclination to do so. It's impossible to train an animal to have the necessary fortitude to fight and keep on fighting despite sustaining life threatening injuries.

There are very clearly animals (and humans) that are born having a thirst for blood, as you call it. By your theory, that it is only a learned behavior, I could just as easily take Pekingese or cornish x and train them to fight to the death, or teach my grandma to be a serial killer.

 

[Tankueray]

Real, game, Pit Bulls and gamefowl are bred specifically to fight others of their kind, it IS in their genetics. They are purpose bred from individuals that have the propensity to do so. You cannot train any animal to fight to kill unless they already have a very strong inclination to do so. It's impossible to train an animal to have the necessary fortitude to fight and keep on fighting despite sustaining life threatening injuries.

There are very clearly animals (and humans) that are born having a thirst for blood, as you call it. By your theory, that it is only a learned behavior, I could just as easily take Pekingese or cornish x and train them to fight to the death, or teach my grandma to be a serial killer.

That's not my theory at all. There is no gene for aggression. There may be polymorphic contributors to the amount of hormones that are produced that can be selectively bred for, which is also how natural selection would do it, but if there were a gene, it would show up in the population so often that we'd have killer cochins and sadistic silkies.

The argument I'm trying to make is that if the people who know and love the breed perpetuate a false idea that it is genetic, then the people who don't know the breed will believe it. And they will use that as the basis for destroying it.

 

[Geena]

but if there were a gene, it would show up in the population so often that we'd have killer cochins and sadistic silkies.

But there ARE killer Cochins and sadistic Silkies, although for sure not at the same frequency as you might see in other breeds, because they are bred mainly for show and pets.

The argument I'm trying to make is that if the people who know and love the breed perpetuate a false idea that it is genetic, then the people who don't know the breed will believe it.

Sorry, but your argument is wrong. People who truly know and love these breeds are well aware of their inherent dispositions and realize it can be dangerous to pretend otherwise.

 

[shawluvsbirds]

People who truly know and love these breeds are well aware of their inherent dispositions and realize it can be dangerous to pretend otherwise.

Which to bring the pit bull argument full circle...
I don't care if it's DNA, genetics hormones or instinct.
It's a breed that has a higher potential to be agressive due to past selective breeding or irresponsible breeding and should not be in the hands of someone who doesn't understand that and puts the dog in a volatile situation that ends poorly in turn causing more bad rep for the breed.

 

[Bigtom Turkey]

Yup, the pit bull lovers are destroying there own cause.

 

[Geena]

Which to bring the pit bull argument full circle...
I don't care if it's DNA, genetics hormones or instinct.
It's a breed that has a higher potential to be agressive due to past selective breeding or irresponsible breeding and should not be in the hands of someone who doesn't understand that and puts the dog in a volatile situation that ends poorly in turn causing more bad rep for the breed.

My German Shepherds have the potential to be aggressive as well. I recognize that and take great care to make sure that they can't hurt anyone who doesn't deserve it. As should anyone who owns an animal capable of inflicting serious damage to others. It doesn't do anyone, human or animal, any favors to pretend as if they wouldn't hurt a fly and then act surprised when things go sideways.

I don't know if there have ever been any studies looking into an "aggressive gene" in animals. I'll have to check that out. They have located genes in humans that are believed to be responsible for some violent and criminal behavior.
Two genes linked with violent crime