Gander has either crop bind or sour crop- throwing up- advice please?

DurhamDuck

Songster
8 Years
Mar 26, 2011
413
15
121
Durham, Connecticut
Yesterday I noticed my goose had his neck scrunched up and was looking kind of swollen in the front. He was acting a little depressed (Very quiet, barely following me around- not normal) so I gave him some dandelion leaves and flowers (his favorite). Later (sometime within 3 hours or so) I went back out and he followed me inside the coop, wanting to be let in, so I opened the door (our coop is a big shed with three separate areas in it). I cleaned out and filled his bucket with water, and he stayed there, drinking a lot and not moving (standing though) for 10-15 minutes, and after that he started moving around and wanting to be let back out, so I opened the door again (I had closed it to keep all the other ducks out). I looked in the water and saw he had regurgitated one of the dandelion flowers (soggy but not really digested) and some tall blades of grass I had given him even earlier (in the morning.) After this he looked better, neck held out taller. I fed him regular pellets at night and put him and the others inside.

Today I let the ducks and geese out, and usually the gander is screaming (happily) and trying to devour all the pellets (I throw out some pellets on the ground in the morning, or the spoiled things won't go outside). Today he just went into the pond to swim. He usually eats constantly! He's never not eaten anything. I looked at him, he didn't look too swollen, but after drinking a lot of water I noticed his crop was big. He spit up some liquid- not really throwing up, more like spitting up a little, like a baby after being burped. I looked at his bill and tried to wipe the spit off when I noticed yellow around his mouth. That's why he's sick! He must have eaten a duck egg. He's a known egg eater, so he's seperated from most of the females (all but two). I guess he managed to get one sometime, maybe this morning and/or yesterday. He swims and cleans a lot, so I can't see it as being older than that. Then again maybe he's been eating them. The two females he's with are older and don't lay much, so I'm never surprised when I don't find eggs there.

I went inside and looked at impacted crop/sour crop in all my goose/duck books. They said to gently massage the crop and try to break up the lumps. So I went out there and did it for a few minutes. He spit up some more, just gooey water or maybe egg whites? Then the gander suddenly flew out of my arms and dove/nose-dived into the shallow area where the water comes from the brook into the pond. He threw up a whole bunch of thick, brown stuff- I think pellets, probably from last night. He laid down in the water for a while and has started drinking again.

So... what do I do know? I looked up crop bind and sour crop (I think maybe he had crop bind and it's begun to turn sour? I felt his crop- there was a small hard spot but mostly it's kind of squishy? maybe that's just fat around the crop??? LOL) and the advice is usually the massage the crop and make them vomit once or twice a day and keep them on a liquid/soft diet for a while. What kind I feed him that's soft? For chickens people recommended scrambled eggs, but eggs are (I'm pretty sure) what made him sick in the first place. What is a soft food geese can eat? Watermelon? He loves that. I am planning on opening up his access to pasture tomorrow (it was closed off since we limed it earlier). Will fresh grass help or hurt him? He's been eyeing the other side of the fence for so long.

He's not terribly lethargic, just a little shaky and tired- but he perks up when his mate gets close, or when he spotted the zipper on my coat (he proceeded to try and eat it twice, and I had to keep shooing him away, so I know he doesn't feel absolutely horrible).

Some people suggested raw garlic to kill any bacteria or fungus that may form. How much for a large American gander? He's a very big plump boy, almost three years old.

How long until this issue goes away...?

BTW- He eats a ton of grit. I don't mix it with his food, but he obsesses over a certain spot of old decomposed wood shavings and usually gulps down some of that in the morning. He also likes to nibble dirt and occasionally swallows (and poops out!
) small pebbles. So a lack of grit is definitely not to blame here.
 

livininbrazil

Songster
7 Years
Dec 17, 2012
4,357
192
238
São Paulo State, Brazil.
Yesterday I noticed my goose had his neck scrunched up and was looking kind of swollen in the front. He was acting a little depressed (Very quiet, barely following me around- not normal) so I gave him some dandelion leaves and flowers (his favorite). Later (sometime within 3 hours or so) I went back out and he followed me inside the coop, wanting to be let in, so I opened the door (our coop is a big shed with three separate areas in it). I cleaned out and filled his bucket with water, and he stayed there, drinking a lot and not moving (standing though) for 10-15 minutes, and after that he started moving around and wanting to be let back out, so I opened the door again (I had closed it to keep all the other ducks out). I looked in the water and saw he had regurgitated one of the dandelion flowers (soggy but not really digested) and some tall blades of grass I had given him even earlier (in the morning.) After this he looked better, neck held out taller. I fed him regular pellets at night and put him and the others inside.

Today I let the ducks and geese out, and usually the gander is screaming (happily) and trying to devour all the pellets (I throw out some pellets on the ground in the morning, or the spoiled things won't go outside). Today he just went into the pond to swim. He usually eats constantly! He's never not eaten anything. I looked at him, he didn't look too swollen, but after drinking a lot of water I noticed his crop was big. He spit up some liquid- not really throwing up, more like spitting up a little, like a baby after being burped. I looked at his bill and tried to wipe the spit off when I noticed yellow around his mouth. That's why he's sick! He must have eaten a duck egg. He's a known egg eater, so he's seperated from most of the females (all but two). I guess he managed to get one sometime, maybe this morning and/or yesterday. He swims and cleans a lot, so I can't see it as being older than that. Then again maybe he's been eating them. The two females he's with are older and don't lay much, so I'm never surprised when I don't find eggs there.

I went inside and looked at impacted crop/sour crop in all my goose/duck books. They said to gently massage the crop and try to break up the lumps. So I went out there and did it for a few minutes. He spit up some more, just gooey water or maybe egg whites? Then the gander suddenly flew out of my arms and dove/nose-dived into the shallow area where the water comes from the brook into the pond. He threw up a whole bunch of thick, brown stuff- I think pellets, probably from last night. He laid down in the water for a while and has started drinking again.

So... what do I do know? I looked up crop bind and sour crop (I think maybe he had crop bind and it's begun to turn sour? I felt his crop- there was a small hard spot but mostly it's kind of squishy? maybe that's just fat around the crop??? LOL) and the advice is usually the massage the crop and make them vomit once or twice a day and keep them on a liquid/soft diet for a while. What kind I feed him that's soft? For chickens people recommended scrambled eggs, but eggs are (I'm pretty sure) what made him sick in the first place. What is a soft food geese can eat? Watermelon? He loves that. I am planning on opening up his access to pasture tomorrow (it was closed off since we limed it earlier). Will fresh grass help or hurt him? He's been eyeing the other side of the fence for so long.

He's not terribly lethargic, just a little shaky and tired- but he perks up when his mate gets close, or when he spotted the zipper on my coat (he proceeded to try and eat it twice, and I had to keep shooing him away, so I know he doesn't feel absolutely horrible).

Some people suggested raw garlic to kill any bacteria or fungus that may form. How much for a large American gander? He's a very big plump boy, almost three years old.

How long until this issue goes away...?

BTW- He eats a ton of grit. I don't mix it with his food, but he obsesses over a certain spot of old decomposed wood shavings and usually gulps down some of that in the morning. He also likes to nibble dirt and occasionally swallows (and poops out!
) small pebbles. So a lack of grit is definitely not to blame here.
Strange gander..likes to eat eggs and stones! it does sound to me like he´s got something stuck in there. Water Melon is great, and you massaging him is good, too. How is he now?
 

DurhamDuck

Songster
8 Years
Mar 26, 2011
413
15
121
Durham, Connecticut
Thank you for answering. Yes, he is a bit strange. His mate would never DARE let him touch one of her/their own eggs, but sometimes the ducks don't make a nest and just lay in the open. He usually eats about half the egg if he can get one, mostly shell and the yolk. I caught him in the act one morning after hearing a loud CRUNCH.

I massaged his crop a little bit. He hasn't spit up any more, but is shaking his head. He holds his head back and to the side sometimes, to keep from vomiting. I see lumps of food come up in his throat, but he shakes his head and swallows. He's afraid to throw up I think. He's alternatively laying down and swimming now, still drinking a lot. He's a little muddy on his crop and otherwise dirty- I don't think he wants to clean/rub himself with his neck because that will make it harder for him to swallow, or maybe it's just uncomfortable. I will see if he eats when I put him in tonight (a few more hours until then), and from now on I'll keep him separated from the female ducks. He's eaten eggs before and been fine- I know because I sometimes discover a chewed-up shell. The most he could have eaten in one day is two, since he has only been with 2 females.

I don't have any watermelon right now to give him, but will try to get some soon. I know he'd eat that. Oddly he seems to enjoy the rinds more than the fruit. He likes hard, crunchy foods I guess. I am also going to get a packet of electrolytes and probiotics tomorrow. We have a local feedstore that sells both.

Tomorrow he will be on pasture for the first time in a while. Do you think this will do him some good?
 

DurhamDuck

Songster
8 Years
Mar 26, 2011
413
15
121
Durham, Connecticut
Anyone else?

He lays down for a long time and then walks to a new spot, sometimes swimming for a little while between moves.

I got him some peas before I put him in for the night. He came to see what the green stuff was but was disappointed to see it was just peas and didn't eat. He ate some pellets later- not gorging himself like usual, but eating it. Another soft food I saw talked about on older threads was applesauce. I have some here and I'll see if he wants some of that tomorrow. Maybe I could give him a dandelion flower or two... but not sure, heard that has a lot of fiber and will make things worse. I want to make sure he's getting nutrition.

Besides the electrolyte and probiotics packets, I am going to look for medicine called docusate sodium tomorrow. People seem to have had success with it. I am not sure if I can find it locally sold as "crop bound capsules" but apparently it is a common drug at the pharmacy for people? Some people here have bought it at Wal-Mart for just four dollars. Supposedly it will dissolve the food and flush the bird out (for people it is sold as a stool softener). I will see how he does with that. First I will check the feedstore, then the pharmacy, then Wal-Mart if I have to... I'm sure I will find it in one of those places. I'll give him 50 mg, since that's what most people here have said to give chickens. He is bigger than the chickens, but I'm not sure how much he actually weighs.

Yesterday his poops were darker than normal, today mostly white, brown and green.

I am glad he threw up a lot earlier, but I think there's gas in his crop. It just looks weird, bubbly both where the crop is and somewhat above it even. I could not find the hard spot in his crop before putting him in- I think he threw all of that up before after I massaged it the first time. Now it's just sour crop I think, liquid and gas. Hopefully the docusate works.

Any more suggestions? Would a picture help? I can take a picture of him and upload it tomorrow morning so you guys can see what he looks like.

Should this be in the Emergencies and Disease section instead? Should I make a new thread there or ask a mod to move this? I'd like more responses.

Note: he is now separated from the female ducks with just his mate, so no more eggs for breakfast.
 

livininbrazil

Songster
7 Years
Dec 17, 2012
4,357
192
238
São Paulo State, Brazil.
Anyone else?

He lays down for a long time and then walks to a new spot, sometimes swimming for a little while between moves.

I got him some peas before I put him in for the night. He came to see what the green stuff was but was disappointed to see it was just peas and didn't eat. He ate some pellets later- not gorging himself like usual, but eating it. Another soft food I saw talked about on older threads was applesauce. I have some here and I'll see if he wants some of that tomorrow. Maybe I could give him a dandelion flower or two... but not sure, heard that has a lot of fiber and will make things worse. I want to make sure he's getting nutrition.

Besides the electrolyte and probiotics packets, I am going to look for medicine called docusate sodium tomorrow. People seem to have had success with it. I am not sure if I can find it locally sold as "crop bound capsules" but apparently it is a common drug at the pharmacy for people? Some people here have bought it at Wal-Mart for just four dollars. Supposedly it will dissolve the food and flush the bird out (for people it is sold as a stool softener). I will see how he does with that. First I will check the feedstore, then the pharmacy, then Wal-Mart if I have to... I'm sure I will find it in one of those places. I'll give him 50 mg, since that's what most people here have said to give chickens. He is bigger than the chickens, but I'm not sure how much he actually weighs.

Yesterday his poops were darker than normal, today mostly white, brown and green.

I am glad he threw up a lot earlier, but I think there's gas in his crop. It just looks weird, bubbly both where the crop is and somewhat above it even. I could not find the hard spot in his crop before putting him in- I think he threw all of that up before after I massaged it the first time. Now it's just sour crop I think, liquid and gas. Hopefully the docusate works.

Any more suggestions? Would a picture help? I can take a picture of him and upload it tomorrow morning so you guys can see what he looks like.

Should this be in the Emergencies and Disease section instead? Should I make a new thread there or ask a mod to move this? I'd like more responses.

Note: he is now separated from the female ducks with just his mate, so no more eggs for breakfast.
Sorry it´s only me again. I did just wonder if he got some egg-shell stuck in there. but sounds like you´re doing great with everything, covering all the possibilities, and good thing to separate him, so. So he is actually pooping? Not just liquid? Poop is a good sign that he´s managing to pass something at least. I hope you soon get him sorted out.
 

DurhamDuck

Songster
8 Years
Mar 26, 2011
413
15
121
Durham, Connecticut
He was pooping solids yesterday. Today very runny and mostly liquid. I will watch him in the morning, and also see if he's interested in more pellets. He is not shaking his head anymore, so I do not think it is making him feel like he has to throw up, even after I massaged him some more. I do not know if that's a good or bad thing.

As far as bits of eggshell... I don't know. I don't know why he even ate it. He leaves the oyster shell alone. It's just eggs he likes. The stuff he was spitting up yesterday and this morning (before throwing up actual solids) looked a lot like an egg white, but I'm not sure if that's what it was or if it was just fluids that looked like it. The "hard" part of his crop I can't feel anymore, so I think we've moved from impacted crop to sour crop. It looks like there's gas in it from the way it moves almost constantly. Someone on an older thread talking about sour crop said it looked like "a belly dancer" and that's exactly what it looks like, in his neck and around the crop.

He's been quiet and acting "off" for about a week, but I didn't think he was ill. I actually thought he was depressed over having to stare at his pasture and not be able to get into it. But the fence comes down tomorrow or the day after, so that will be good.

Nothing left to do for tonight, but tomorrow I will be busy. I will update in the morning, maybe with a picture.

PS: I think it's cool that I can talk to someone all the way in Brazil!
Computers!
 

livininbrazil

Songster
7 Years
Dec 17, 2012
4,357
192
238
São Paulo State, Brazil.
He was pooping solids yesterday. Today very runny and mostly liquid. I will watch him in the morning, and also see if he's interested in more pellets. He is not shaking his head anymore, so I do not think it is making him feel like he has to throw up, even after I massaged him some more. I do not know if that's a good or bad thing.

As far as bits of eggshell... I don't know. I don't know why he even ate it. He leaves the oyster shell alone. It's just eggs he likes. The stuff he was spitting up yesterday and this morning (before throwing up actual solids) looked a lot like an egg white, but I'm not sure if that's what it was or if it was just fluids that looked like it. The "hard" part of his crop I can't feel anymore, so I think we've moved from impacted crop to sour crop. It looks like there's gas in it from the way it moves almost constantly. Someone on an older thread talking about sour crop said it looked like "a belly dancer" and that's exactly what it looks like, in his neck and around the crop.

He's been quiet and acting "off" for about a week, but I didn't think he was ill. I actually thought he was depressed over having to stare at his pasture and not be able to get into it. But the fence comes down tomorrow or the day after, so that will be good.

Nothing left to do for tonight, but tomorrow I will be busy. I will update in the morning, maybe with a picture.

PS: I think it's cool that I can talk to someone all the way in Brazil!
Computers!
It´s very strange why he is so obsessed with grit and stones to eat. The grass he eats, is it nice and short? Because long grass can cause problems in geese. Also, the decomposed woodshavings would not be at all good for him, could even cause the problem. You could try some antibiotic. And I´d not be inclined to give him pellets, unless you make them sloppy. so it can go through without causing a problem. So, very short grass if he wants it, sloppy pellets, antibiotics. I always give them Apple cider Vinegar, it´s good natural antiseptic, just dilute it in some water for him. I hope he picks up.
 

DurhamDuck

Songster
8 Years
Mar 26, 2011
413
15
121
Durham, Connecticut
Good news! I went to let him out today and he honked loudly at me, like he normally does. I thought, that's a good sign. I opened the door and noticed two things: One, his crop looked perfectly normal, and two. the coop smelled HORRIBLE! I let him out and saw that he left big humongous stinky poops, like the kind a mother duck does after sitting on her nest all day. It smells so bad, but I'm glad he's better. What are the chances of this coming back? I know it can relapse.

Today I am going to get the probiotics and electrolytes (and some new shavings...) for him. I'm going to ask the feedstore owner what she thinks I should do. She owns many chickens so has probably seen this issue before.

Anyway, I fed him a very small amount this morning, and after eating eagerly he is now swimming around with his head up high. I am going to let him eat some very short grass today. I think that maybe if he's on a more natural diet his system will learn to regulate itself better. He's been eating little but pellets and cracked corn for months, so maybe hogging out on the few grasses and weeds in his reach- I think he maybe just wasn't ready for it.

Thank you for your advice and quick responses! I will see about that apple cider vinegar- I see it mentioned constantly, both for birds and people! It's supposed to be very healthy. One question though- is it okay to put in metal or plastic buckets, or will it leach? Currently I'm watering my flock with two ordinary farm-quality metal buckets and a plastic beach bucket (the kind you make sand castles out of). I guess if I gave it to them once every week or two it would not be a problem.
 

livininbrazil

Songster
7 Years
Dec 17, 2012
4,357
192
238
São Paulo State, Brazil.
Good news! I went to let him out today and he honked loudly at me, like he normally does. I thought, that's a good sign. I opened the door and noticed two things: One, his crop looked perfectly normal, and two. the coop smelled HORRIBLE! I let him out and saw that he left big humongous stinky poops, like the kind a mother duck does after sitting on her nest all day. It smells so bad, but I'm glad he's better. What are the chances of this coming back? I know it can relapse.

Today I am going to get the probiotics and electrolytes (and some new shavings...) for him. I'm going to ask the feedstore owner what she thinks I should do. She owns many chickens so has probably seen this issue before.

Anyway, I fed him a very small amount this morning, and after eating eagerly he is now swimming around with his head up high. I am going to let him eat some very short grass today. I think that maybe if he's on a more natural diet his system will learn to regulate itself better. He's been eating little but pellets and cracked corn for months, so maybe hogging out on the few grasses and weeds in his reach- I think he maybe just wasn't ready for it.

Thank you for your advice and quick responses! I will see about that apple cider vinegar- I see it mentioned constantly, both for birds and people! It's supposed to be very healthy. One question though- is it okay to put in metal or plastic buckets, or will it leach? Currently I'm watering my flock with two ordinary farm-quality metal buckets and a plastic beach bucket (the kind you make sand castles out of). I guess if I gave it to them once every week or two it would not be a problem.
Hi Durham. so glad he´s up on his feet ok today. what a good outcome! They´re easily lost with these things. Did you have a good look at the poop to see what he managed to pass?
People in feed stores often don´t know what they´re talking about and can tell you a lot of nonsense, so check here first any advice that the feedstore person gives you that you´re not sure about.
My views on your comments are:
Don´t put him on shavings, he may eat them. don´t let him have access to the pile of old shavings. Put him in his own fenced-off pen on short grass with some grit and his bucket of water with ACV. (Put diluted ACV in a plastic bucket every day at first, at least more regularly than 2 weeks, it´s very good for so many things.) Look for worms in his poop. there must be some reason he´s eating such a lot of grot. Give him things like Romaine lettuce and Water Melon to help him get going. All of this is so much better than pellets.
Here, mine have access to a stream, so they can find their own grit. When I breed them, they sometimes go into separate pens, and then I put a pool in with washed builders´sand (no grit here) in the bottom. They love getting their heads in and finding the sand. (so much better than pebbles, which won´t do the same job)
I hope he keeps going ok. What´s his Mrs doing?
 

DurhamDuck

Songster
8 Years
Mar 26, 2011
413
15
121
Durham, Connecticut
Quote: I will get rid of the old pile of shavings but at night he gets locked up in his coop (he would be eaten by coyotes otherwise) and he has to be on shavings there. Otherwise the wood will rot from all the moisture.

Quote: Not sure I can do that. He has to use a metal bucket, which I've heard will leach when it comes into contact with the vinegar. Originally he had plastic buckets, but he chewed on and ate the handle
so I switched him to metal.

Quote: I looked, nothing. I have never seen worms in the poops of either the geese or the ducks.

Here is a not-so-high quality picture of his biggest poop. It's dark grey, but there's nothing big or blocky. I think it's just his regular food mixed with the egg(s) he ate.



Quote: Mine do, too. He eats the little pebbles from it, and also the dirt. He just really likes that one pile of shavings for some reason.

Quote: She's being her normal bossy self, honking at the ducks, cleaning herself, stomping around and looking for food. Yesterday, when her mate was sick, she kept yelling at him and trying to get him to follow her. They like to graze together.
 
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