Genetics creating barred Araucana

[bearpaw]

Hi Sonoran, and others,

I want to create barred Araucanas and if I have a tailed one why not barred Ameraucanas.
Barred is what I'm going for I may have confused everyone by adding cuckoo into the discussion. I had hopes I could use cuckoo to perhaps create barred. I did get 3 contacts by Araucana breeders who are working on barred ones. Perhaps one or more will sell me some.

I appreciate all your genetic thoughts. I was only trying to reach as many breeders as possible to pick their brains on barred genetics which I had very little knowledge of.

Thanks

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Bearpaw, there is no problem with being excited aout a project and asking lots of questions, but you've kind of hit us with a shotgun blast of questions on different threads and forums. At least within a single forum it is better to try to keep it all on one thread rather than splitting one discussion into several threads.

There is a whole lot more to the difference between araucanas and ameraucanas than just the rumplessness of the araucana. Yes, I can see using one to add a variety to the other as having a lot of the traits desired--but you will have to also deal with those not desired as well.

Cuckoo & barred are both created with the barring gene. Barred also has the slow feather growth gene to create the more defined appearance that distinguishes it from the fuzzier cuckoo. So yes, you could use one to create the other, but then you have to deal with that other gene.

I hope you are able to acquire some birds where the project is already underway. Since you say you lack a lot of the genetic knowledge having a breeder to work with should be very helpful.

Good luck!

 

[herechickchick]

I have it on good authority from an experienced Araucana breeder that using a barred Old English Game is a good bird to cross to pure black Araucana. You will have things to work out but they are closer in size to the Araucana rather than a Barred Rock or a Cuckoo Marans which would make for extra large Araucana. I guess you need to decide whether you want to develop this color in hopes that other Araucana breeders will want to work with you to get this variety accepted by the APA and or ABA.If so then you must follow the standard as closely as possible. If you are just wanting to create a blue egg laying, barred bird that resembles the Araucana or Ameraucana that is fine as well but, IMO you would be misleading your buying public by calling them Araucana or Ameraucana. I think a barred bird that lays a blue egg will have a lot of appeal to the average backyard flock keeper so I believe you would have a very viable business prospect in them.

Oh and the reason you could not have a Barred Ameraucana is because of genetic factors. You will never be able to meet all of the standard requirements for the Ameraucana in a barred color, it is just not possible.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Why not? If you're talking about the leg colour, it has been done with silkies. It's not a single generation cross (when is that ever the case), but with time and generations it can be done.

 

[Krys109uk]

If you are just wanting to create a blue egg laying, barred bird that resembles the Araucana or Ameraucana that is fine as well but, IMO you would be misleading your buying public by calling them Araucana or Ameraucana. I think a barred bird that lays a blue egg will have a lot of appeal to the average backyard flock keeper so I believe you would have a very viable business prospect in them.

Oh and the reason you could not have a Barred Ameraucana is because of genetic factors. You will never be able to meet all of the standard requirements for the Ameraucana in a barred color

If a bird looks like a breed in that it confrms to type lays correct egg colour etc. etc. Then it is reasonable to say that the bird is that breed. If someone wants to create a new colour variety it can be accepted into the standards with whatever colour is specified. In this case the leg colour ought not to be too great an issue......there are lots of breeds where varying colours have different colours of legs as is appropriate for the colour. It would be like saying this new colour cannot be accepted because it is a new colour.

There are cuckoo araucana in the British standards they are allowed white legs......& why not?​

 

[Kev]

Quote:
It's a rather touchy issue over here in the USA. Discussions regarding Araucanas, Amers and/or EE can get 'hot'.. including topics of the possibility of having a new color accepted into Amers.

 

[Krys109uk]

It's a rather touchy issue over here in the USA. Discussions regarding Araucanas, Amers and/or EE can get 'hot'.. including topics of the possibility of having a new color accepted into Amers.

Thanks for warning me Kev

The Ameraucana must surely be a rather "new" breed in itself. Seems a bit odd for them to be touchy about new colours.

 

[pips&peeps]

It's not touchy, it's that people want to do their own thing and don't listen to what the founding members of the club have tried to tell them. These are the people who created the breed and no doubtedly have dabbled in other colors.

There are currently eight recognized varieties of ameraucana. It is a relatively new breed and eight varieties for any breed in the US is alot. There is only one breed currently that has more varieties and that is the leghorn. I believe they were admitted to the Standard in 1894, so that is 100 years of breeding on the ameraucana. The current varieties are not perfected at this point and all still need more work.

The ameraucana SOP only allows for slate legs. (black is allowed on black birds)

There was a person who was interested in making barred birds and wanted to use a bird with the sex linked barring gene and was told over and over again that it was genetically impossible to create a barred bird with slate or black legs that had white skin in that manner.

Someone stated that the leg color standard should then be changed and they were told that the Directors at this time had no intention of doing that. I, being one of the Directors agree with that decision.

From there it got really messy and words and fur flew...........

Anyway, that is the story as I remember it.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

There are 14 varieties of silkies, 34 varieties of OEGB, 14 varieties of bantam polish, 26 varieties of rosecomb, 18 varieties of wyandotte bantams, 18 varieties of modern game bantams, so I don't think 8 varieties is a particularly large amount. However I do agree that breed clubs should have a fair amount of say in the standards for their breed.

The way that the APA & ABA work, a bird merely has to meet the standard to be shown as such, regardless of its actual pedigree: so I could cross my zebra finches & silkies and if the resulting offspring

looked like an ameraucana, I could show it as one, and if it matched the standard well enough it could place well. However that doesn't negate the fact that it really wouldn't be an ameraucana.

There is a big difference in project birds and "lets see what I can hatch." Each has its place, and I have a problem with saying that one can't or shouldn't have project birds, or that a project bird is not the breed from which it was created. But I also have a problem with calling a mix or cross as something other than what it is. To me one of the big things to be answered about a non-standard bird is whether or not there was/is a goal as compared with a one-time lark.

 

[Krys109uk]

The ameraucana SOP only allows for slate legs. (black is allowed on black birds)

So Ameraucanas don't actually have to have slate legs to be ameraucanas.
And black legs are allowed on black ameraucanas but white legs would not be allowed on cuckoo (or barred) ameraucanas.