genetics experts -- what IS this, genetically?

[amazondoc]

Are these guys E with insufficient melanizers, or possibly e+ with too many melanizers, or what?

http://eggheadhill.smugmug.com/Chickens/Bantam-Araucanas/Pen-2-E/9831543_3jYtL

 

[speckledhen]

Not enough melanisers to cover the base color, I think. Had a black Ameraucana rooster like that. BUT, I'm no genetics expert, so you'll have to wait for one to saunter by, LOL.

 

[Krys109uk]

What are they supposed to be? How were they bred? Is the epidermis (outer layer of skin) dark & the dermis light?

 

[amazondoc]

IF I have my records straight -- which is definitely an IF, since I waited waaay too long to band these guys this season -- Then LW18 was bred from a duckwing/wheaten roo. LW23 was definitely one of the birds I purchased from a guy who breeds for BBS. If I'm a little bit confused, then both L18 and L23 were from the BBS program. Both of them have yellow legs with gray overlay (not willow).

 

[key west chick]

IDK but he looks JUST like my Araucana roo Franklin! I always wondered what color he was.

 

[KellyHM]

I have a frizzle that has colors almost exactly the same. Don't know much about the genetics though.

 

[Krys109uk]

They look like they're probably E having lost melanisers.
IF LW18 was from an eWh/e+ male what was the mother? So LW23 is from a totally different breeder?
They also look either het silver/gold or silver with mahogany.

What are you making with them?

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
If LW18 was from my male, then the mom could be a variety of hens -- none black. My hens from that generation are wheatenish, blue wheatenish, buff, and splash. LW23 is definitely unrelated to my birds, and if I've gotten my band numbers mixed up then LW18 may also be from that other breeder.

I'm not making anything with em, yet. That's why I'm trying to figure out what they are -- so I can decide what to do with em!

 

[Krys109uk]

If LW18 was from my male, then the mom could be a variety of hens -- none black. My hens from that generation are wheatenish, blue wheatenish, buff, and splash.

With those possible mothers I think LW18 is probably a bnding mistake & probably isn't from your birds, plus it looks very like the other bird from the other breeder.
Your male with all, except the splash hen, would give males with a lighter wing triangle. And obviously is the mother was the splash the offspring would be blue (presuming the father to be black).

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
I think it is probably true that L18 is from L23's breeder, for the reasons you stated. So, you think we can assume that these guys are E? Just missing some necessary melanizers to make em solid black?

And if so, do ya think that the blue pullets pictured below are also E? Same problem with possible banding errors. I produced blue and splash chicks from my own birds (aside from the duckwing/wheaten roo, I also had a splash roo this season), and also purchased BBS from this other breeder. I *think* these birds are from my splash roo, but that may not be correct.

http://eggheadhill.smugmug.com/Chickens/Bantam-Araucanas/Araucanas/9824076_YniwL

Here's the roo in question. You'll see he's got something else going on in addition to splash...