Genetics question regarding mutt birds 😁

[renk777]

Little dead chick looks to be mostly white down with light skin/legs and a single comb. Yolk is huge so I'm thinking it passed a day or so ago. I always worried these eggs were compromised when another egg broke and got yolk over the rest of the clutch when the broody and BraekelX squabbled over the box. That egg got a hairline crack a couple days ago so perhaps bacteria got in? The chick looks as I'd expect and doesn't smell but the yolk sack doesn't look 'fresh'. Not sure how to explain it. Based on my calculations, all eggs should have pipped/hatched by tomorrow. I would think if that chick was still alive yesterday/today, more of the yolk would have been absorbed. But I'm no expert. It's just my guess

 

[NatJ]

Little dead chick looks to be mostly white down with light skin/legs and a single comb.

Based on the comb, it's likely (but not certain) that the sneaky bantam was the father of that chick.

Yolk is huge so I'm thinking it passed a day or so ago. I always worried these eggs were compromised when another egg broke and got yolk over the rest of the clutch when the broody and BraekelX squabbled over the box. That egg got a hairline crack a couple days ago so perhaps bacteria got in? The chick looks as I'd expect and doesn't smell but the yolk sack doesn't look 'fresh'. Not sure how to explain it. Based on my calculations, all eggs should have pipped/hatched by tomorrow. I would think if that chick was still alive yesterday/today, more of the yolk would have been absorbed. But I'm no expert. It's just my guess

My guess matches yours, that it probably died about the time it was supposed to start absorbing yolk, so yes probably a few days ago.

 

[renk777]

Based on the comb, it's likely (but not certain) that the sneaky bantam was the father of that chick.


My guess matches yours, that it probably died about the time it was supposed to start absorbing yolk, so yes probably a few days ago.

I was going to ask if the comb indicated the bantam as the dad. Need to reread all you wrote but if dark roo was dad, I'd expect a greater hence of something else. I think it's possible that the dark roo and the BraekelX hen could possibly produce a light legged chick but I expected at least one to have some sort of dark legs since mom has slate and dad's are black. The mom (Ducky...looked like a duck as a chick) is one of our more dominant hens and I never saw dark roo (Lokee) mount her. Pip (Brahma hen) is missing feathers in saddle area so I suspected the larger roo was mounting her. Ducky has some feather breakage but not much which also makes me suspect Sneaky B was wooing her haha As for the broody, she's off the nest. Last 2 eggs are in incubator. Egg that pipped yesterday is shrink wrapped. I enlarged hole before placing her in bator. I don't want to do more than that; I need her to work to get out so I won't intervene unless she 's made no progress in the next few hours. I'm excited though....she's dark beaked ❤

 

[NatJ]

I was going to ask if the comb indicated the bantam as the dad.

Depending on what comb genes the dark rooster has, he might be able to sire a chick with a single comb, or he might not.

So single comb makes me suspect the bantam, but unless we learn more about the dark rooster's comb genes, we cannot rule him out as a possible father.

I think it's possible that the dark roo and the BraekelX hen could possibly produce a light legged chick but I expected at least one to have some sort of dark legs since mom has slate and dad's are black.

I completely missed her leg color in the photos.
With both parents having dark legs, ALL chicks should have dark legs.

I've seen some chicks with "dark" legs that hatched with legs that looked light, but a few weeks later they looked dark. It was not always evident at hatch. I'm not positive whether fibro will make more of them obvious at hatch, or whether they can still take a while to become visible.

The mom (Ducky...looked like a duck as a chick) is one of our more dominant hens and I never saw dark roo (Lokee) mount her. Pip (Brahma hen) is missing feathers in saddle area so I suspected the larger roo was mounting her. Ducky has some feather breakage but not much which also makes me suspect Sneaky B was wooing her haha

So you never actually saw either one mount her?
Obviously someone did, because her eggs produced chicks, but i see why you would be unsure which one

As for the broody, she's off the nest. Last 2 eggs are in incubator. Egg that pipped yesterday is shrink wrapped. I enlarged hole before placing her in bator. I don't want to do more than that; I need her to work to get out so I won't intervene unless she 's made no progress in the next few hours. I'm excited though....she's dark beaked ❤

Hopefully that goes well!

 

[renk777]

Depending on what comb genes the dark rooster has, he might be able to sire a chick with a single comb, or he might not.

So single comb makes me suspect the bantam, but unless we learn more about the dark rooster's comb genes, we cannot rule him out as a possible father.


I completely missed her leg color in the photos.
With both parents having dark legs, ALL chicks should have dark legs.

I've seen some chicks with "dark" legs that hatched with legs that looked light, but a few weeks later they looked dark. It was not always evident at hatch. I'm not positive whether fibro will make more of them obvious at hatch, or whether they can still take a while to become visible.


So you never actually saw either one mount her?
Obviously someone did, because her eggs produced chicks, but i see why you would be unsure which one


Hopefully that goes well!

Need advice regarding that pipped egg. She pipped sometime before 4 pm yesterday because I saw it was pipped when I fed flock and locked run for the night. This morning, there was no progress. At around 4 pm, I pulled last 2 eggs because broody was up and tending to the 2 chicks. I opened hole for air and membrane looked really dry and away from shell....like chick was a little mummy inside of egg. Her beak was through the membrane.. No progress by 5 pm but she kept cheeping and reminded me of a chick I had years ago that couldn't hatch due to slipped tendons. Same duration, cheeping, and lack of progress. So I waited a little and then chipped away at the shell a bit more to allow her whole beak to be visible. Membrane looked dry but when I chipped away 1 piece, it bled. I took an eye dropper and moistened membrane with warm water to get a better visual of veins and there are definitely still veins. She's not ready. However, she's not turning/zipping. She seems stuck. If I remember right, it's the movement and effort that helps them absorb the yolk and blood but if she's not moving properly....not sure how to proceed. My mind says to leave her be but I don't want her to pass from exhaustion. My gut is uneasy and feels she might need help. How long after pipping should veins recede? Thoughts?

 

[NatJ]

Need advice regarding that pipped egg. She pipped sometime before 4 pm yesterday because I saw it was pipped when I fed flock and locked run for the night. This morning, there was no progress. At around 4 pm, I pulled last 2 eggs because broody was up and tending to the 2 chicks. I opened hole for air and membrane looked really dry and away from shell....like chick was a little mummy inside of egg. Her beak was through the membrane.. No progress by 5 pm but she kept cheeping and reminded me of a chick I had years ago that couldn't hatch due to slipped tendons. Same duration, cheeping, and lack of progress. So I waited a little and then chipped away at the shell a bit more to allow her whole beak to be visible. Membrane looked dry but when I chipped away 1 piece, it bled. I took an eye dropper and moistened membrane with warm water to get a better visual of veins and there are definitely still veins. She's not ready. However, she's not turning/zipping. She seems stuck. If I remember right, it's the movement and effort that helps them absorb the yolk and blood but if she's not moving properly....not sure how to proceed. My mind says to leave her be but I don't want her to pass from exhaustion. My gut is uneasy and feels she might need help. How long after pipping should veins recede? Thoughts?

I don't really have experience with assisted hatching.
I suggest this article:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/guide-to-assisted-hatching-for-all-poultry.72886/

It looks like absorbing the yolk, and having the veins recede, can take 24 hours or so.
It also looks like it just takes as long as it takes, and you risk having the chick bleed to death if you try to get it out of the shell before that point.

Again, I don't have enough personal experience to matter here, so I'm just paraphrasing the article.

 

[renk777]

I read a bunch of different articles and posts (I'll check yours out in a moment). It seems that 24 hrs is the point that assistance is tolerable...if not recommended...but this case is different. I have only assisted a few times over the years...one was a double yolker where I suspected the 2nd chick had died and was preventing the first from zipping. Sadly, both had died. The next was the little bird with slipped tendons but there was no veining present after 24 hours. The last was Lokee's accidental daughter last year. She was really struggling and took over 24 hrs from pipping. Pip was the broody that time and got off the next for a half hour in 40° weather. So I assisted her and she did great. I'm thinking in this case that broody getting off nest might have halted/ slowed down absorption of yolk/veins. So even though she pipped over 24 hrs ago, she didn't absorb at the rate a chick would at the appropriate temp/humidity. I'm just going to let her be and hopefully, she'll absorb, zip, and hatch. I fear that any additional involvement would jeopardize her chances more. She keeps struggling and I see that creating more blood around the edges. It's just too premature. I gave her enough room to move her head and breathe but I'll have to leave it at that and pray she's able to break out during the night. Argh. I didn't need any more chicks but now that I have her, I don't want to lose her ❤

 

[NatJ]

I fear that any additional involvement would jeopardize her chances more. She keeps struggling and I see that creating more blood around the edges. It's just too premature. I gave her enough room to move her head and breathe but I'll have to leave it at that and pray she's able to break out during the night. Argh. I didn't need any more chicks but now that I have her, I don't want to lose her ❤

Given that, it does sound like this one needs more time.
Hopefully it goes well.
But if it doesn't, you will know that you tried, and it was clearly NOT time to assist further. Sometimes there really is nothing you can do (and the hard part is to tell which times that is!)

 

[renk777]

Given that, it does sound like this one needs more time.
Hopefully it goes well.
But if it doesn't, you will know that you tried, and it was clearly NOT time to assist further. Sometimes there really is nothing you can do (and the hard part is to tell which times that is!)

Agreed. Hard. But if I meddle and she doesn't make it, I'll live with guilt. If I leave it up to her at this point, I have peace knowing I gave her a chance and it is what it is. But praying for a little fluff butt greeting me in the AM!

 

[renk777]

No progress yet. Still same position. Her cheeping is faint but she's breathing. I still see a couple veins in the membrane that are just too apparent for any type of assistance so I'm going to just let her be. Writing this more for anyone that stumbles on this thread in a similar situation. It's so hard not to meddle but I'm hoping it's a positive outcome and others realize the importance of why. She's been under heat now for 12 hours so assuming the 24 hrs after her initial outer pip were too cold and process slowed, thinking that within the next 6 hrs, I might see progress. If not, I'll revisit my stance.