Genetics question regarding mutt birds 😁

[renk777]

It might be. The photo wasn't at the best angle to tell.


Yes, it is quite a puzzle!


That one may become more obvious as it grows up, or it may not.

Does the sneaky bantam have feathered or clean feet? I think I see some feathers on the feet of the Ameraucana/Silkie mix rooster. The chick's feet look pretty heavily feathered, so I'm wondering if we can make a guess at the father from that.

The white mottling of the sneaky bantam is caused by a recessive gene, so it should only show up if a chick inherits it from both parents (not likely, with those mothers.) But on occasion, a chick will get white tips on a few feathers if it inherited mottling from just one parent, so that's one thing to possibly watch for.

I notice the sneaky bantam has some black in his tail but not elsewhere, while the Ameraucana/Silkie rooster has black in more places. When the chick grows feathers, the distribution of black (or blue or splash) might help tell which rooster is the father (or it could be confusingly in the middle.)

I keep thinking of things that "might" help sort it out, but so far not anything that definitely does. So I'll certainly be interested in updates as the chicks grow

The chick's feet are heavily feathered like its mama's. The Ameraucana/Silkie roo has clean feet but the sneaky bantam does have some feathering on his feeters. The chick that passed was out of the Braekel/Sexlink hen and had clean legs/feet. That could mean dark roo is dad or if sneaky B is dad, the clean gene came through. I can post a photo but didn't want to upset anyone that might be scrolling. Since dark roo has dark skin/legs and sneaky roo's are light, any chick with fibro gene would obviously be the dark roo's. It's one of the reason's I chose him. Had him separated with specific hens from Jan thru May. No LF went broody so I combined flock again and put 2.5 week old purchased LF chicks under a bantam broody. Shockingly, they imprinted on each other and are doing great. That's really all I have room for. Right before we left for vaca, current broody decides to sit and sitter didn't grab all the eggs.... hence the current situation. Definitely not planned Will dominant white also cancel out fibro gene or might I get a black skinned bird with white feathers and leakage? That would be really cool. I checked on mama and chick tonight and when I shook feeder to help feed drop, she raised up to reposition. Another egg out of the brahma is pipped so interested to see what greets me tomorrow

 

[NatJ]

The chick's feet are heavily feathered like its mama's. The Ameraucana/Silkie roo has clean feet but the sneaky bantam does have some feathering on his feeters.

The foot feathering makes it seem more likely that the sneaky bantam is the father, but of course that's not a certainty.

The chick that passed was out of the Braekel/Sexlink hen and had clean legs/feet. That could mean dark roo is dad or if sneaky B is dad, the clean gene came through.

I agree.

I can post a photo but didn't want to upset anyone that might be scrolling.

I've seen some people put photos in spoilers. I've never done it, so I'm not quite sure how. I'm always curious to see photos, but I don't know if I'll spot anything else in that one.

Since dark roo has dark skin/legs and sneaky roo's are light, any chick with fibro gene would obviously be the dark roo's. It's one of the reason's I chose him.

I agree with that.
But I think light-skinned mothers should produce light-skinned sons, no matter which rooster is the father of the chick.
(I've read that fibro doesn't express unless the chicken also has id+, the recessive sexlinked gene that allows dark legs. Any light-legged hen would have the dominant Id, and give it to all of her sons.)

Had him separated with specific hens from Jan thru May. No LF went broody so I combined flock again and put 2.5 week old purchased LF chicks under a bantam broody. Shockingly, they imprinted on each other and are doing great. That's really all I have room for. Right before we left for vaca, current broody decides to sit and sitter didn't grab all the eggs.... hence the current situation. Definitely not planned

Chickens obviously have minds of their own, no matter you carefully you make your plans!

Will dominant white also cancel out fibro gene or might I get a black skinned bird with white feathers and leakage?

I've seen photos of birds like you describe: Paint Silkies, and Ayam Cemani crossbreds. So Dominant White affects the feathers much more than the skin color in those cases.

Another egg out of the brahma is pipped so interested to see what greets me tomorrow

I'm looking forward to it too!

 

[renk777]

The foot feathering makes it seem more likely that the sneaky bantam is the father, but of course that's not a certainty.


I agree.


I've seen some people put photos in spoilers. I've never done it, so I'm not quite sure how. I'm always curious to see photos, but I don't know if I'll spot anything else in that one.


I agree with that.
But I think light-skinned mothers should produce light-skinned sons, no matter which rooster is the father of the chick.
(I've read that fibro doesn't express unless the chicken also has id+, the recessive sexlinked gene that allows dark legs. Any light-legged hen would have the dominant Id, and give it to all of her sons.)


Chickens obviously have minds of their own, no matter you carefully you make your plans!


I've seen photos of birds like you describe: Paint Silkies, and Ayam Cemani crossbreds. So Dominant White affects the feathers much more than the skin color in those cases.


I'm looking forward to it

The foot feathering makes it seem more likely that the sneaky bantam is the father, but of course that's not a certainty.


I agree.


I've seen some people put photos in spoilers. I've never done it, so I'm not quite sure how. I'm always curious to see photos, but I don't know if I'll spot anything else in that one.


I agree with that.
But I think light-skinned mothers should produce light-skinned sons, no matter which rooster is the father of the chick.
(I've read that fibro doesn't express unless the chicken also has id+, the recessive sexlinked gene that allows dark legs. Any light-legged hen would have the dominant Id, and give it to all of her sons.)


Chickens obviously have minds of their own, no matter you carefully you make your plans!


I've seen photos of birds like you describe: Paint Silkies, and Ayam Cemani crossbreds. So Dominant White affects the feathers much more than the skin color in those cases.


I'm looking forward to it too!

Not sure how to reply w/o the entire quote but eeeeekkkkkkkkk..... look at this extreme cuteness that is def out of the dark roo and the brahma hen..... I'm positively dying! Unfortunately, with that comb, thinking cockerel. Do you agree? Also, I'm not certain the other chick is from the same dad. Last year, when we got the dark roo, the day I introduced him to the flock, I also pulled out my bantam hens to pair up with our late bantam roo in another enclosure. The bantam hens weren't in with the new guy very long. Maybe an hour while I cleaned and prepped the enclosure. The brahma hen had gone broody so I took 2 eggs from one bantam that I knew was split to mottling because roo was also split to mottling (sneaky B's dad). The resulting cgicks were a surprise....one was a mottled little peach bird and the other...completely black. So both our late bantam and the dark roo each sired a chick with eggs from the same bird collected 2 days apart. So I suppose it's possible this might be a similar situation because the yellow/red downed chick has heavily feathered legs (what I'd expect from 2 fearhered leg parents) but the fibro chick has more sporadic feathering (what I'd expect out of the brahma and the clean shanked dark roo). Guess time will tell!

 

[NatJ]

Not sure how to reply w/o the entire quote

On my desktop computer, I just click inside the quote and start deleting stuff.
I don't have any idea if it works the same way on other kinds of devices.

but eeeeekkkkkkkkk..... look at this extreme cuteness that is def out of the dark roo and the brahma hen..... I'm positively dying! Unfortunately, with that comb, thinking cockerel. Do you agree?

Now THAT looks like a walnut comb! I'm not sure whether it's a cockerel, but that's what I meant about walnut combs being wide at hatch! I agree, that one is definitely from the dark rooster, not the sneaky bantam.

With that dark skin, you might actually have a pullet (if the sex-linking works the way I think it does, only a female from that mating should be able to show dark skin. Although I've seen some cases when it didn't, and I still don't understand all of the reasons why.)

Also, I'm not certain the other chick is from the same dad.

Yes, it is quite possible that they have different fathers, even if the eggs were laid by the same hen and only a day or two apart.

the yellow/red downed chick has heavily feathered legs (what I'd expect from 2 fearhered leg parents) but the fibro chick has more sporadic feathering (what I'd expect out of the brahma and the clean shanked dark roo). Guess time will tell!

I agree, time will tell. But I am thinking the same thing you are, about the leg feathering.

 

[renk777]

On my desktop computer, I just click inside the quote and start deleting stuff.
I don't have any idea if it works the same way on other kinds of devices.


Now THAT looks like a walnut comb! I'm not sure whether it's a cockerel, but that's what I meant about walnut combs being wide at hatch! I agree, that one is defintiely from the dark rooster, not the sneaky bantam.

With that dark skin, you might actually have a pullet (if the sex-linking works the way I think it does, only a female from that mating should be able to show dark skin. Although I've seen some cases when it didn't, and I still don't understand all of the reasons why.)


Yes, it is quite possible that they have different fathers, even if the eggs were laid by the same hen and only a day or two apart.


I agree, time will tell. But I am thinking the same thing you are, about the leg feathering.

I hope it's a pullet! I'm already smitten. I've seen photos of roos where I believe dad was Ayam Cemani and mom was some sort of light bird and a fibro roo resulted but those might have been rare. Or not....since AC roo sires probably had 2 copies of fibro gene? Not sure that's how it works. Regardless, hoping that the statistics are in my favor!

 

[renk777]

With that dark skin, you might actually have a pullet (if the sex-linking works the way I think it does, only a female from that mating should be able to show dark skin. Although I've seen some cases when it didn't, and I still don't understand all of the reasons why.)

I found this thread which admittedly is way over my head but I think it alludes to what you mentioned. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...elanosis-in-the-sikie-and-ayam-cemani.864273/ Also, regarding sex linked genetics, is it possible the first chick (if it shares the same father as the second) has more feathered legs because it is a male (it's light) and received 2 copies of the feathered leg gene from its mom? When I hold them, the first chick seemed more brazen from day 1. The fibro chick seems more demure. That is not a dependable way to guess at all but if these 2 chicks share a dad, then I think that might be what we have...a cockerel and a pullet. 3 more eggs to go...one more out of the brahma and 2 out of the Braekel / sexlink hen. Funny...no matter how many chicks you buy or hatch, it just never gets old!

 

[renk777]

On my desktop computer, I just click inside the quote and start deleting stuff.
I don't have any idea if it works the same way on other kinds of devices.


Now THAT looks like a walnut comb! I'm not sure whether it's a cockerel, but that's what I meant about walnut combs being wide at hatch! I agree, that one is definitely from the dark rooster, not the sneaky bantam.

With that dark skin, you might actually have a pullet (if the sex-linking works the way I think it does, only a female from that mating should be able to show dark skin. Although I've seen some cases when it didn't, and I still don't understand all of the reasons why.)


Yes, it is quite possible that they have different fathers, even if the eggs were laid by the same hen and only a day or two apart.


I agree, time will tell. But I am thinking the same thing you are, about the leg feathering.

One last thought...the red chick appears to have a pea comb. If leg feathering is the result of 2 copies from mom, might the same apply to the comb? Would light coloration, a pea comb, and heavily feathered legs mean heavier influence from mom and therefore a cockerel?

 

[renk777]

I found this too elsewhere on BYC. Since I'm dealing with a silkie cross roo, it makes sense...

 

[renk777]

Wondering now if dead chick was a cockerel with its light skin color and clean legs since mom was the Braekel/sexlink. Maybe I'll still get a dark skinned pullet out of that combo too. I won't check again until the AM. Broody usually repositions when I change water and shake feed down and I can get a glimpse of what's still under her.

 

[NatJ]

I found this too elsewhere on BYC. Since I'm dealing with a silkie cross roo, it makes sense...

Yes, that's what I was expecting, but that may have explained it better than I did.

regarding sex linked genetics, is it possible the first chick (if it shares the same father as the second) has more feathered legs because it is a male (it's light) and received 2 copies of the feathered leg gene from its mom?

One last thought...the red chick appears to have a pea comb. If leg feathering is the result of 2 copies from mom, might the same apply to the comb? Would light coloration, a pea comb, and heavily feathered legs mean heavier influence from mom and therefore a cockerel?

No. A chick never receives "two copies" of anything from the mother.

The way sex chromosomes work in chickens:
A rooster has sex chromosomes ZZ. He gets one from his mother, and one from his father. Every time he sires a chick, he passes one or other of his Z chromosomes to that chick.

A hen has sex chromosomes ZW. She gets Z from her father, and W from her mother. She determines the gender of her chicks by giving Z to some (males) and W to others (females.)

Because a hen's only Z chromosome comes from her father, she must show every trait that is on it. Dominant and recessive don't matter, because she's only got one option. (I do not know of any genes on the matter on the W chromosome.)

To make actual sexlink chicks, using genes on the Z chromosome, you need:
--recessive trait in the father (if he shows it, he's got two copies of it, so you can just pick by looking at him. You don't need to know his parents.)
--dominant trait in the mother (she only has one Z chromosome, so there is no way for her to carry any other gene for that trait. So you can pick her by appearance too, without needing to know about her parents.)

When you cross those, the rooster gives the recessive trait to all of his chicks, of both genders. The hen gives the dominant trait to her sons, and her W chromosome to her daughters.

Because the daughters only have one Z chromosome (from their father), they show the recessive trait (gold, not-barred, dark skin, fast feathering, chocolate, etc.)

Because the sons have the dominant trait from their mother and the recessive trait from their father, they show the dominant trait (silver, barred, light skin, slow feathering, not-chocolate, etc.) This means the sons look different than their sisters, and you can sex them by whatever trait you are using.

(other points to follow, but this seemed plenty long for one post.)