Genotype Questions

[hdowden]

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ER/ER S/S Db/Db are basicaly Black tail white.

somehow I doubt they are ER/ER Db/Db

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these are pretty

 

[tadkerson]

I do not think Db will give you a mealy phenotype. Birchen with some other weak restrictor or something else is causing the color. Db on silver birchen will give black tailed white phenotype. My Db and birchen birds look nothing like the mealy phenotype.

 

[Henk69]

I think mealy is a henny feathering related type of birchen.
Probably not the known Hf gene.

Birchen is not stippled like that, so maybe the color is undermelanized, like a solid buff is a undermelanized buff columbian.
I don't know if it breeds true.
If not, it could also be heterozygous for another e-locus allele to allow the stippling.

 

[nicalandia]

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something like this?

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I once believed Db could not affect ER..

this boy is ER/ewh Db/db+

his not restricted brother.(mother in the background)

you see her mother? she is a Self Buff Cochin(naked neck)

I already have ER/eWh(Backcross chicks, from the boys) I was ondering if its possible for an ER bird to be fully restricted like a eWh bird.

 

[tadkerson]

Lots of restricters floating around out there that are not documented. Campo and Alverez say the columbian gene does not effect the birchen primary color pattern but other researchers say the columbian gene restricts the birchen primary color pattern.

I have not worked with or seen any research on the mealy pattern- another research project for whomever.


Marvin ,

I corrected my earlier statement. I used the term silver breasted crow wing and should have said black tailed white. The birds do not have crow wings.


http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j437/nicalandia/PartialyRestrictedRoo.jpg


This male definitely has something going on with the breast. It may be the Nb gene proposed by Kimball. Not many people know about the gene. This gene causes lacing on the breasts of birchen ( E locus) birds. When the gene was bred into wild type birds, the birds had a non black breast- different than columbian restriction.



Tim

 

[aurissavannahs]

I hope someone here can help me. I am on a forum about Norwegian Jaerhons(Jaers) and we need to know if the dark variety is genetically dominant to the light variety if not the light variety may be lost in the U.S. In 1994 Dr. Netland imported 12 hatching eggs from Norway. This is the only known importation. Both varieties that are recognized in Norway, light and dark were hatched and raised in this country. Dr. Netland sold stock to a number of other people and Jaers are available from three hatcheries. However, little was known about the Jaers and until recently most people did not know there were different varieties let alone how to tell the lights from the darks. The Jaers seem to have been bred together with no regard for variety. We now have a translation of the SOP from Norway so we know about the varieties in Norway and all the Jaers we can find in the U.S. seem to be darks except for a sport not found in Norway bred by Sandhill hatchery that they call a Flame Norwegian Jaerhon. I have seen a picture of a lighter hen in this country that looks like the light variety and I am hoping that the light variety is recessive and if so that variety is still here just hiding in the dark variety's genonome. I am picture challenged, but can supply links to pictures if anyone is interested in helping with this problem.
Kathleen

 

[tadkerson]

The best I can gather is that the Jaers are Extended black, dark brown restricted, barred, silver and carry autosomal red.

That is my best guess- If I had some Jaers, a few light brown leghorns and a couple years I would be certain.

Here is one of my birds that look similar to a jaer This bird is a hybrid.

Tim

 

[aurissavannahs]

tadkerson, thanks for your response.
I think I have figured out how to send pictures. So here goes. This is a picture of my dark Jaer hens a couple of weeks before they started to lay.

I think they are eb(dark brown), B(barred), and ig(cream) . I am not sure I am using the right abreviations so correct me if I am wrong. They do look like Cream Legbars but paler.

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
There has to be a restricter in the bird to restrict the black to the posterior part of the bird. If the birds were eb with a restricter, then they would be barred buff columbian.

What is the color of the male- are the males silver in the hackles? It could be that the birds are gold and the cream gene plus the barring gene is diluting the hackles to a silver color. But you would not get the same thing happening in the wings and tail. The wings and tails of the males have very little black and a bunch of silver.

The males that I have seen only have the red color across the back. This is typical of autosomal red on a silver bird. The tails and wings of the males have much of the black removed- this is typical of the dark brown gene on birds that are not birchen or not extended black.

The problem is with the restrictor- it may be that the birds contain a restrictor that is not documented. The columbian gene will make the eb birds a columbian phenotype and the Jaerhon are not columbian.

The dark brown gene is a restrictor but tends to remove most of the black from a bird that is eb or birchen so you get a black tailed white or black tailed red phenotype.

Dark brown on extended black produces a female bird that has posterior restriction like Jaerhon.

There is a definite difference in how the male reacts to the genotype than the female.

Will add more later

Tim

 

[aurissavannahs]

Quote:
There has to be a restricter in the bird to restrict the black to the posterior part of the bird. If the birds were eb with a restricter, then they would be barred buff columbian.

What is the color of the male- are the males silver in the hackles? It could be that the birds are gold and the cream gene plus the barring gene is diluting the hackles to a silver color. But you would not get the same thing happening in the wings and tail. The wings and tails of the males have very little black and a bunch of silver.

The males that I have seen only have the red color across the back. This is typical of autosomal red on a silver bird. The tails and wings of the males have much of the black removed- this is typical of the dark brown gene on birds that are not birchen or not extended black.

The problem is with the restrictor- it may be that the birds contain a restrictor that is not documented. The columbian gene will make the eb birds a columbian phenotype and the Jaerhon are not columbian.

The dark brown gene is a restrictor but tends to remove most of the black from a bird that is eb or birchen so you get a black tailed white or black tailed red phenotype.

Dark brown on extended black produces a female bird that has posterior restriction like Jaerhon.

There is a definite difference in how the male reacts to the genotype than the female.

Will add more later

Tim

This is very helpful. I have just read Brian Reeder's An Introduction to Color Forms of the Domestic Fowl: A Look at Color Varieties and How They Are Made and it is helpful, but the lack of pictures has made it difficult to visualize what he is saying and apply it to this situation. I will try to get you more pictures of the Jaer roosters, hens, and chicks.
Kathleen