Getting a guardian puppy - any chicken<-->dog communicables I need to worry about?

[chickfused]

Not a good chicken chasing morning. But after she had a poo, she calmed down?

 

[chickfused]

 

[chickfused]

It was a cursed hatch. There was a tragic unboxing accident which took us down to 15 eggs from 18. Then an egg got broken under the hen at around 7 days while she was sitting, the other chickens smelled egg, and pecked open 2 more while she was off the nest. Down to 12. Had to wash the chicken and eggs (which took the bloom off at a crucial stage of development.) Day 14 candling showed we had 7 live eggs left after discarding dead (3) and infertile (only 2 were infertile). Then we had a freak heatwave, like 100+ degrees for 3 days, and I think a couple of the babies died in that. And then mom smashed her first egg - it pipped on the bottom and then the shell crumbled and flat baby.

But we got these 4 cute babies and (most importantly) my hen is no longer sitting like a fool. I expect Copper will eat them given the luck with the rest of it. But wish us the other kind of luck please, we clearly need it!

I lost my patience this morning with the alligator dog and we had a nearly 2 hour long battle of wills. For 40 minutes, I got my hand under her collar in an unbitable position and let her go wild. And she did. Claws, teeth, kicking, full on biting, and I kept her head pinned to the ground when I had the opportunity otherwise, I just didn't let her get a bite in while I petted the parts of the dog that normally result in biting. No hitting or yelling, just quiet and total domination. And when she settled, I kept petting her and praised her until she tried again. Repeat. After she accepted her fate, I picked her up and we repeated the process whilst I was carrying her, except pinning her head to my shoulder so she couldn't get my face (picking up and carrying has also been a trigger.) That only took about 10 minutes.

We've had to repeat the lesson twice, but each time, it's much shorter. She's been incredibly calm, loving, licky, and even slept in my lap twice since we got done with this nonsense. I didn't much care for this process, but it seems to have produced the desired results. I expect we'll have to repeat the lesson a few times for a couple of weeks/months, but it's very effective (for now).

Edit: And before anyone gets upset, I know the difference between mouthing and biting. I'm talking full on, aggressive "I want my way, not yours" _biting_. She has all kinds of things to mouth on and distracts nicely from human flesh when she just needs to mouth and chew with a proper chewy or toy.

 

[chickfused]

I've learned a few things.

1. I will never buy a dress or skirt without pockets again.
2. I have never been so constantly dirty in my life as I have been since getting a farm dog. I literally apologized to my washcloth last night.
3. Copper isn't as housetrained as I thought she is or she's still got a smaller bladder than I thought. She doesn't go in her portion of the barn, AT ALL. Ever. She does 6 hours of sleep, with no issue at all. But I brought her into the basement this morning at 4:15 and by 6:40, puddle. Sleeping is different than being awake, but she's done 2.5 hours awake in the closed barn, no probs. (The roosters woke up early today, there's 4 of them. I felt sorry for her ears when I went to take her outside to pee.)
4. She's taken to nipping at the chickens when they are sharing food, but they are pecking her too. Standard chicken stuff. I've decided to let it continue since after they sort themselves, everyone goes back to eating normally. It looks more like she's learned to speak chicken than actual aggression. I've noticed her looking around and paying attention when one makes the danger noise too.
5. This does not hold true for her archnemesis white chicken. That one and her have problems with each other. I have decided to let this play out as well. I expect the chicken will lose. It doesn't seem to be transferring to other chickens much, if at all. Just the one. And to Geena's point up thread, I do not expect her to take shit without defending herself. It's a very special marbled-meat American Bresse chicken, so hopefully the worst that happens is we get wagyu chicken for dinner.
6. She's learning to herd with me, with no special training. For the past week, on leash, we've been slowly walking the chickens off the range and into their pen at night or out of areas I don't want them in, flanking getting them through the gate, etc. So, I have 3 little hens that fly the coop every morning and come to eat breakfast with us. This morning she (off-leash) slowly, carefully and respectfully helped me bring a straggler of the 3 back into the pen. Walking behind the chicken about 10 feet, slowly, no running. Chicken wasn't running either, just walking at a normal pace, but with direction. After we got them in there, and I was walking back up to the house, she tried to put _me_ back in the pen a bit more aggressively! Running in front of me, stopping, barking, and nipping (no teeth contact) at my calves. It was hysterical. Perhaps her instincts are kicking in.
7. She started to get bitey again this morning, but gave up after about 5 minutes. I kind of stuttered 'n-n-n-n-n-no' at her (because yelling or raising my voice just amps her up more) and that produced some really interesting results. Going to experiment.

I gave her an old soccer ball to play with, and she carries it around! It's half as big as she is!

Mama chicken is not letting anyone near her babies, so while Copper was in the right frame of mind, now is not the time.

Today will be our first bath. She's filthy too. She loves our stream and splashes around in it happily, so I hope this goes well.

Does anyone who knows anything about herding dogs know about her herding behavior toward me? It was very funny, but does it mean she sees me as below her on the totem pole?

 

[Geena]

It was a cursed hatch. There was a tragic unboxing accident which took us down to 15 eggs from 18. Then an egg got broken under the hen at around 7 days while she was sitting, the other chickens smelled egg, and pecked open 2 more while she was off the nest. Down to 12. Had to wash the chicken and eggs (which took the bloom off at a crucial stage of development.) Day 14 candling showed we had 7 live eggs left after discarding dead (3) and infertile (only 2 were infertile). Then we had a freak heatwave, like 100+ degrees for 3 days, and I think a couple of the babies died in that. And then mom smashed her first egg - it pipped on the bottom and then the shell crumbled and flat baby.

But we got these 4 cute babies and (most importantly) my hen is no longer sitting like a fool. I expect Copper will eat them given the luck with the rest of it. But wish us the other kind of luck please, we clearly need it!

I lost my patience this morning with the alligator dog and we had a nearly 2 hour long battle of wills. For 40 minutes, I got my hand under her collar in an unbitable position and let her go wild. And she did. Claws, teeth, kicking, full on biting, and I kept her head pinned to the ground when I had the opportunity otherwise, I just didn't let her get a bite in while I petted the parts of the dog that normally result in biting. No hitting or yelling, just quiet and total domination. And when she settled, I kept petting her and praised her until she tried again. Repeat. After she accepted her fate, I picked her up and we repeated the process whilst I was carrying her, except pinning her head to my shoulder so she couldn't get my face (picking up and carrying has also been a trigger.) That only took about 10 minutes.

We've had to repeat the lesson twice, but each time, it's much shorter. She's been incredibly calm, loving, licky, and even slept in my lap twice since we got done with this nonsense. I didn't much care for this process, but it seems to have produced the desired results. I expect we'll have to repeat the lesson a few times for a couple of weeks/months, but it's very effective (for now).

Edit: And before anyone gets upset, I know the difference between mouthing and biting. I'm talking full on, aggressive "I want my way, not yours" _biting_. She has all kinds of things to mouth on and distracts nicely from human flesh when she just needs to mouth and chew with a proper chewy or toy.

Your girl is still just a pup, the mouthing, teething and on up to the "aggressive" biting is all just puppy stuff. Personally I just leave them alone and give them something to chew on when they're in an extra bitey mood.
I find it's one of those things NatJ was talking about that resolve themselves over time without intervention. Not that you should allow her to bite you, I'm not saying that at all, just that it's definitely not worth a two hour, knock down drag out battle with a puppy.
Yes, you can break her will and show your dominance over her if that's what you wish to do, but you risk her not trusting you or being willing to work with you in the future. I much prefer to work with my dogs instead of against them, we are a team, not adversaries.

 

[chickfused]

I find it's one of those things NatJ was talking about that resolve themselves over time without intervention. Not that you should allow her to bite you, I'm not saying that at all, just that it's definitely not worth a two hour, knock down drag out battle with a puppy.

Well, it actually is. My mom lives here, is elderly with the paper thin skin the elderly have, and is on blood thinners. And she and the dog enjoy each other, but when Copper suddenly and without warning switches into the other mode, she's dangerous to Mom. She got Mom the other day, when Mom was just petting and apparently petted a spot Copper didn't want to be touched in, and Mom's hand bled for 30 minutes. She absolutely, cannot, under any circumstances, bite. Mouthing is different, and not much danger. To avoid confusion though, we're trying to discourage mouthing with distraction, and biting with discipline.

 

[Geena]

Well, it actually is. My mom lives here, is elderly with the paper thin skin the elderly have, and is on blood thinners. And she and the dog enjoy each other, but when Copper suddenly and without warning switches into the other mode, she's dangerous to Mom. She got Mom the other day, when Mom was just petting and apparently petted a spot Copper didn't want to be touched in, and Mom's hand bled for 30 minutes. She absolutely, cannot, under any circumstances, bite. Mouthing is different, and not much danger. To avoid confusion though, we're trying to discourage mouthing with distraction, and biting with discipline.

Gotcha, puppy teeth and nails and thin skin are a recipe for disaster. I would suggest limited exposure and protective clothing for the time being. You're unlikely to completely extinguish that any time soon, it's not bad behavior so much as it's a developmental stage, and a pup doesn't have a whole lot of self control at that age.

 

[chickfused]

The weather's cooled off enough that pants and long sleeve shirts are possible and she's been doing that since Copper came home. Gloves aren't happening though. She just doesn't pet her anymore, but both parties are sad about this.

In other news, I forgot a learning: Potatoes and peanuts are _much_ easier to harvest when you have a diggy dog!

 

[chickfused]

I am going to sell or eat the white chickens. Its not going to end well.

 

[chickfused]

It was not a good dog day. I'm trying to remain positive. These will happen. She's a puppy.

We're going to try timeout with her when she gets bitey instead of doing dominance discipline. I hate it, I'm not entirely sure she doesn't think we're just playing rough, and it doesn't stick long enough to make it worth it.