Ghost Barring question.

[NatJ]

I have some barred Cochin bantams I ordered. The girls are dark and the boys are super light. Woukd this be considered blue or black. I just can’t call them black.

Those are black with white barring. There is no blue involved.

The females have one copy of the barring gene, the males have two copies of the barring gene, which is why they are lighter.

Barring is on the Z sex chromosome. Females have sex chromosomes ZW (one Z that can have barring, one W that makes them female.) Males have sex chromosomes ZZ (so they can have no barring, one copy of the barring gene, or two copies of the barring gene.)

A chicken with two copies of the barring gene is lighter colored than a chicken with one, and is always male. This can sometimes be used for sexing chicks in certain breeds (the Cochins you have now, Barred Rocks, Cream Legbars, Bielefelders, anything called "autosexing.") The reason it can only be used "sometimes" is because the light/dark difference is not always clear enough to see easily.

A chicken with one copy of the barring gene, or no copy, could be male or female. But if you know the parentage, you sometimes know the gender as well:

A rooster with two copies of the barring gene will give one copy to each chick. If the mother has no barring, that means the chicks will each have one copy of barring, and will look alike. If the mother has barring, the sons will have two copies of the barring gene, the daughters will have one copy, and the chicks are sexable like your current Cochins.

A rooster with one copy of the barring gene will give it to half his chicks, and the other half will get not-barred. This means half the daughters will be barred and half not-barred. If the mother has no barring, half the sons will be barred and half not-barred. (These chicks are not color-sexable.)

For a rooster with one copy of the barring gene, who gives it to half his chicks, if the mother has barring, half of the sons will be double barred (two copies of the gene) and half will be single barred (one copy of the gene.) Half the daughters are barred and half are not-barred. The double-barred sons can be recognized by color and so can their unbarred sisters, but the single-barred chicks will include both males and females.

A hen with the barring gene will give it to her sons but not her daughters (because she is giving her daughters the W chromosome to make them female.) If the father is not barred, that makes barred sons and not-barred daughters, which can be sexed by looking for the barring on the males (Black Sexlinks are made this way.)

 

[MysteryChicken]

I have some barred Cochin bantams I ordered. The girls are dark and the boys are super light. Woukd this be considered blue or black. I just can’t call them black.

They're Black With Barring. Males are light cuz they carry an extra barring gene.

 

[Ashleyboz]

Those are black with white barring. There is no blue involved.

The females have one copy of the barring gene, the males have two copies of the barring gene, which is why they are lighter.

Barring is on the Z sex chromosome. Females have sex chromosomes ZW (one Z that can have barring, one W that makes them female.) Males have sex chromosomes ZZ (so they have have no barring, one copy of the barring gene, or two copies of the barring gene.)

A chicken with two copies of the barring gene is lighter colored than a chicken with one, and is always male. This can sometimes be used for sexing chicks in certain breeds (the Cochins you have now, Barred Rocks, Cream Legbars, Bielefelders, anything called "autosexing.") The reason it can only be used "sometimes" is because the light/dark difference is not always clear enough to see easily.

A chicken with one copy of the barring gene, or no copy, could be male or female. But if you know the parentage, you sometimes know the gender as well:

A rooster with two copies of the barring gene will give one copy to each chick. If the mother has no barring, that means the chicks will each have one copy of barring, and will look alike. If the mother has barring, the sons will have two copies of the barring gene, the daughters will have one copy, and the chicks are sexable like your current Cochins.

A rooster with one copy of the barring gene will give it to half his chicks, and the other half will get not-barred. This means half the daughters will be barred and half not-barred. If the mother has no barring, half the sons will be barred and half not-barred. (These chicks are not color-sexable.)

For a rooster with one copy of the barring gene, who gives it to half his chicks, if the mother has barring, half of the sons will be double barred (two copies of the gene) and half will be single barred (one copy of the gene.) Half the daughters are barred and half are not-barred. The double-barred sons can be recognized by color and so can their unbarred sisters, but the single-barred chicks will include both males and females.

A hen with the barring gene will give it to her sons but not her daughters (because she is giving her daughters the W chromosome to make them female.) If the father is not barred, that makes barred sons and not-barred daughters, which can be sexed by looking for the barring on the males (Black Sexlinks are made this way.)

This answers all questions I’ve had about barring and makes total sense now. Your heaven sent

 

[NatJ]

This answers all questions I’ve had about barring and makes total sense now. Your heaven sent

I'm glad it was helpful

 

[Bean1028]

One thing I see that makes it more obvious is the fact the birds aren't pure for white. If they were completely white, with barring it would be less visible.

I've been reading up on the white genetics as well to decide if we will keep our sole white bird or not. I believe I literally just did this cross on the calculator about 5 mins before I found this post on the white barring. I believe it's a white dominate vs white recessive...(and I'm assuming that's what you meant by pure/not pure for white?) By that I mean they obtained the white barring (or ghost barring) because they used a white dominate rooster. I think if they used a white recessive rooster instead they would not have obtained the white (ghost) barring. I could be totally wrong, but I've come across this a few times recently playing with the calculator. I didn't understand it at first, and dismissed it. I think everything clicked a few days ago (as far as whites & barring goes) when I decided to play with the calculator again and kept getting an odd barring mix...so I switched to white recessive & I didn't have that "white barring" on the offspring according to the calculator. I also did the white in both dominate & recessive on the hen and not the roo...you know...just in case he is a she...lol so I could have this all totally wrong. Feel free to correct me please!

 

[Bean1028]

Do you have any recommendations or information on how to keep the barring going with more visibility? I think it’s absolutely beautiful.

Here is another link with the same chicken in the pics here. There's also a picture of the parents & what they are. I am going to try this! I stumbled upon it recently while playing with the white genetics on the genetic calculator. I didn't think to try the buff orpington/barred rock x white dominate hen! I had (until this morning) a buff orpington roo & 2 barred rock hens...and they just so happened to be in the same run the entire 15 months I had them...and now my husband wants to hatch eggs...and we're swimming in them!! And we have a sole white bird we're not sure what to do with & are hoping is a hen...what are the odds?!? Yeah, I'm definitely trying this. More visibility...I think you'd take the ghost barred hen and cross it to a barred rock roo? I might have that backwards tho. Anyways, all that to say hope this link helps!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bluish-ghost-barred-gene.387399/

 

[MysteryChicken]

I've been reading up on the white genetics as well to decide if we will keep our sole white bird or not. I believe I literally just did this cross on the calculator about 5 mins before I found this post on the white barring. I believe it's a white dominate vs white recessive...(and I'm assuming that's what you meant by pure/not pure for white?) By that I mean they obtained the white barring (or ghost barring) because they used a white dominate rooster. I think if they used a white recessive rooster instead they would not have obtained the white (ghost) barring. I could be totally wrong, but I've come across this a few times recently playing with the calculator. I didn't understand it at first, and dismissed it. I think everything clicked a few days ago (as far as whites & barring goes) when I decided to play with the calculator again and kept getting an odd barring mix...so I switched to white recessive & I didn't have that "white barring" on the offspring according to the calculator. I also did the white in both dominate & recessive on the hen and not the roo...you know...just in case he is a she...lol so I could have this all totally wrong. Feel free to correct me please!

What I meant, by they're not pure for white(Dominant), is that they're paints, & the black splotches allow barring to be seen easier on the birds.

 

[Ashleyboz]

Here is another link with the same chicken in the pics here. There's also a picture of the parents & what they are. I am going to try this! I stumbled upon it recently while playing with the white genetics on the genetic calculator. I didn't think to try the buff orpington/barred rock x white dominate hen! I had (until this morning) a buff orpington roo & 2 barred rock hens...and they just so happened to be in the same run the entire 15 months I had them...and now my husband wants to hatch eggs...and we're swimming in them!! And we have a sole white bird we're not sure what to do with & are hoping is a hen...what are the odds?!? Yeah, I'm definitely trying this. More visibility...I think you'd take the ghost barred hen and cross it to a barred rock roo? I might have that backwards tho. Anyways, all that to say hope this link helps!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bluish-ghost-barred-gene.387399/

Finally someone that’s playing with it! lol! It’s definitely fun and makes you think! With my first hatch I had our BCM rooster over our ghost barred girls. I got ghost barred boys with white feet. The girls were paints with dark feet. I’m still trying to figure out the bloodlines of the Hoover girl that gives the dark feet in this specific white girl. The boy offspring in this hatch also were paints but got very little paint spots but when they did the black paint spots were barred! I’m working on now breeding the ghost barred boys back to a black girl that carries the barred but isn’t showing it (we did get a few all black ) I’m just learning genetics and it’s a subject I never thought I would touch but a complete passion now. I’ve got some projects with these going on now that have been fun with a silkie and a Cochin to make barred paints. It’s a big waiting game since in my case the barring doesn’t show up until about 4-5 months old. And with that comes leakage. Yellow in my case

 

[NatJ]

I’m working on now breeding the ghost barred boys back to a black girl that carries the barred but isn’t showing it (we did get a few all black ) I’m just learning genetics...

The barring gene is dominant. A black chicken who has the barring gene will show white bars. To the best of my knowledge, it is impossible for a black chicken to carry the barring gene without showing it. (White bars are much less obvious on light-colored chickens, so some of them can have the barring gene without it being very visible, although even then you can often see it when you look closely.)

...BCM rooster over our ghost barred girls. I got ghost barred boys with white feet.

I’m working on now breeding the ghost barred boys back to a black girl

I would expect four basic colors of chicks:
--black
--black with white barring
--white/paint
--white/paint with white barring (ghost barred and/or paints with white barring in the black spots)

Each of those should come in both males and females, and all the types should be about equally common.

 

[Bean1028]

Finally someone that’s playing with it! lol! It’s definitely fun and makes you think! With my first hatch I had our BCM rooster over our ghost barred girls. I got ghost barred boys with white feet. The girls were paints with dark feet. I’m still trying to figure out the bloodlines of the Hoover girl that gives the dark feet in this specific white girl. The boy offspring in this hatch also were paints but got very little paint spots but when they did the black paint spots were barred! I’m working on now breeding the ghost barred boys back to a black girl that carries the barred but isn’t showing it (we did get a few all black ) I’m just learning genetics and it’s a subject I never thought I would touch but a complete passion now. I’ve got some projects with these going on now that have been fun with a silkie and a Cochin to make barred paints. It’s a big waiting game since in my case the barring doesn’t show up until about 4-5 months old. And with that comes leakage. Yellow in my case

Pretty chickies!! Oh, the leg hunt! Haha, I was just on that bender with my silver mixed bird. Pretty much came to the conclusion that I'll probably never know where she got her gorgeous legs, but I'm focusing on what to breed her with to try to retain them & her feather coloring. Does she (your Hoover girl) have muffs/beard? What kind of comb does she have? Oh, the Silkies have nice dark legs...a white silkie with ghost barring would be pretty neat! I love playing with the calculator...it definitely makes you think! I feel like I have so many "projects" I want to do now I don't know which ones I want to start with. Kinda reminds me of Pintrest way back in the day lol...just way more stimulating!