GMO questions and answers: a rational evidence-based discussion

[Demidog]

As someone who is passionate about science and dispelling misinformation, i thought I'd take the opportunity to start a thread where people can ask questions about GM crops and have a rational discussion about the pros and cons, and to try to address some of the common propaganda and misinformation the public has on this subject.

Let me start out by saying that we grow GM corn for chicken feed. And no I'm not a shill for Monsanto

My husband and i are small scare farmers living in Macedonia in South Eastern Europe. My husband is also an agronomist in his day job, so he knows a lot about this subject. He has degrees in agronomy and sustainable agriculture. I lack an agricultural diploma but i make up for it with my passion for science and genuine interest in the subject. My degree is in biology/zoology, so it's within the same general group of science subjects. I just studied animals instead of plants. My husband and I make a great team actually. He knows all about the crops and i know about the live stock

I haven't studied biotechnology so i never knew that much about it, but i was never really all that concerned about GMO's. I was on the fence. I remember when i was in high school, 15 + years ago, and hearing the scare stories on the news but i never gave it much thought. As i got a bit older and my interest in biology developed, i had some slight concerns about the environmental effects. I thought that GM crops could spread into the wild and cross pollinate with other plants, and i thought this could have potential negative effects on the environment. I have always been an environmentalist and a nature lover, and i didn't know anything about agriculture at this point so i thought this must be a bad thing. The scientists develop their GM crops in quarantine right? So that must mean that it will be bad if they spread into the wild, right? Or else why would they bother keeping them separated? I knew about evolution, about cross pollination, i knew it was possible, and i didn't like the idea of 'messing with nature' or 'playing God'. But that was before i knew anything about agriculture or biotechnology. The more i learned the more my fears were put to rest. I discovered that GM crops are not something to be feared. That they are very tightly regulated and tested over decades before they are approved for use. I learned that there is scientific consensus on the safety of GM crops both for human and animal consumption and for the environment. When i learned this i was pretty much convinced, because every major scientific organization in the world, who are comprised of scientists expert in their field, have agreed they are safe and i as a lay person trust their combined expert option over the claims of some activists who don't even have a degree in this subject and don't fully understand it. I don't even fully understand it! But i trust the experts because they have spent their life studying GMO's and they are the ones who know most about it. I know when there is a combined consensus on something that means that all of the scientists have reviewed the evidence and come to the same conclusion, and that they are probably right.

So I've managed to do a 180, from having some concerns when i didn't know much about it, to becoming genuinely interested in this subject and confident of it's benefits and it's safety. I trust in science. And you know something that probably made all the difference and shoved me forward into becoming a skeptic was reading Ben Goldacre's book 'Bad Science', and then others like it, where he explains all about the scientific method, study designs and how to spot the red flags of bad science. Because there are lots of bad quality studies out there with no control groups, too small sample sizes, missing data and lots of bias which distorts the results and renders them useless. So having a good grasp of science and how good quality research is conducted is a must in order to be able sift through it all with a skeptical eye.

So, do we agree I'm not a shill for Monsanto?

Please use this space to ask and answer questions on GMO's and to have a rational discussion based on science and facts instead of propaganda. And there is a lot of propaganda on this subject to tackle, so lets get started!

 

[chickengeorgeto]

As someone who is passionate about science and dispelling misinformation, i thought I'd take the opportunity to start a thread where people can ask questions about GM crops and have a rational discussion about the pros and cons, and to try to address some of the common propaganda and misinformation the public has on this subject.

Let me start out by saying that we grow GM corn for chicken feed. And no I'm not a shill for Monsanto

My husband and i are small scare farmers living in Macedonia in South Eastern Europe. My husband is also an agronomist in his day job, so he knows a lot about this subject. He has degrees in agronomy and sustainable agriculture. I lack an agricultural diploma but i make up for it with my passion for science and genuine interest in the subject. My degree is in biology/zoology, so it's within the same general group of science subjects. I just studied animals instead of plants. My husband and I make a great team actually. He knows all about the crops and i know about the live stock

I haven't studied biotechnology so i never knew that much about it, but i was never really all that concerned about GMO's. I was on the fence. I remember when i was in high school, 15 + years ago, and hearing the scare stories on the news but i never gave it much thought. As i got a bit older and my interest in biology developed, i had some slight concerns about the environmental effects. I thought that GM crops could spread into the wild and cross pollinate with other plants, and i thought this could have potential negative effects on the environment. I have always been an environmentalist and a nature lover, and i didn't know anything about agriculture at this point so i thought this must be a bad thing. The scientists develop their GM crops in quarantine right? So that must mean that it will be bad if they spread into the wild, right? Or else why would they bother keeping them separated? I knew about evolution, about cross pollination, i knew it was possible, and i didn't like the idea of 'messing with nature' or 'playing God'. But that was before i knew anything about agriculture or biotechnology. The more i learned the more my fears were put to rest. I discovered that GM crops are not something to be feared. That they are very tightly regulated and tested over decades before they are approved for use. I learned that there is scientific consensus on the safety of GM crops both for human and animal consumption and for the environment. When i learned this i was pretty much convinced, because every major scientific organization in the world, who are comprised of scientists expert in their field, have agreed they are safe and i as a lay person trust their combined expert option over the claims of some activists who don't even have a degree in this subject and don't fully understand it. I don't even fully understand it! But i trust the experts because they have spent their life studying GMO's and they are the ones who know most about it. I know when there is a combined consensus on something that means that all of the scientists have reviewed the evidence and come to the same conclusion, and that they are probably right.

So I've managed to do a 180, from having some concerns when i didn't know much about it, to becoming genuinely interested in this subject and confident of it's benefits and it's safety. I trust in science. And you know something that probably made all the difference and shoved me forward into becoming a skeptic was reading Ben Goldacre's book 'Bad Science', and then others like it, where he explains all about the scientific method, study designs and how to spot the red flags of bad science. Because there are lots of bad quality studies out there with no control groups, too small sample sizes, missing data and lots of bias which distorts the results and renders them useless. So having a good grasp of science and how good quality research is conducted is a must in order to be able sift through it all with a skeptical eye.

So, do we agree I'm not a shill for Monsanto?

Please use this space to ask and answer questions on GMO's and to have a rational discussion based on science and facts instead of propaganda. And there is a lot of propaganda on this subject to tackle, so lets get started!

Question number one:
Are GMO crop seeds tested for safety before they are sold to farmers?

Question number two:
Have any so called heritage (nonGMO) food or fiber crop species ever been tested for safety, or escaped into the environment by say a tomato cross pollinating with a magnolia tree, or a cucklebur plant sprouted ears of corn?

Question number three:
Since it is a scientific fact that there has been literally trillions of servings of GMO crops eaten by both humans, farm animals and wildlife without one negative side effect, do you consider GMOs safer than spraying toxic chemicals wholesale just to kill a few insect pest when GMOs can do the job without any chemical pesticides?

 

[Demidog]

Question number one:
Are GMO crop seeds tested for safety before they are sold to farmers?

Question number two:
Have any so called heritage (nonGMO) food or fiber crop species ever been tested for safety, or escaped into the environment by say a tomato cross pollinating with a magnolia tree, or a cucklebur plant sprouted ears of corn?

Question number three:
Since it is a scientific fact that there has been literally trillions of servings of GMO crops eaten by both humans, farm animals and wildlife without one negative side effect, do you consider GMOs safer than spraying toxic chemicals wholesale just to kill a few insect pest when GMOs can do the job without any chemical pesticides?

Some great questions Chickengeorgeto

For question one:

Yes they are. It take years of research and animal testing to develop a new GM variety and have it approved for sale. The regulations are very tight for GM crops, it's a very long multi-step proses . Researchers and regulators have found no significant health concerns specifically relating to the GM varieties currently on the market which are all FDA approved. They're safe. In fact there was recently a huge review done, including almost 2,000 scientific papers, where researchers looked at all of the research over the past decade on GM safety (which you can read here - An overview of the last 10 years of genetically engineered crop safety research: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07388551.2013.823595) in which they state "The scientific research conducted so far has not detected any significant hazards directly connected with the use of GE crops"



For question two:

Well for a start a tomato would not be able to cross pollinate with a magnolia tree as they are too distantly related. But it is possible for closely related plant species to cross pollinate.

The older varieties are not intensely tested for safety like GM varieties, but they have gone through generations of consumption without any noticeable concerns.
Bottom line: stop worrying and just eat your dinner

For question three:

Yes. The pest resistant varieties reduce pesticide applications, so that's a good thing. Pesticides are costly for the farmer and do have negative effects on the environment. For example, pesticides kill multiple species including some beneficial insects, whereas GM pest resistant crops target a specific pest leaving other beneficial insects unharmed. The pest eats the crop and dies, and the beneficial insects live on the crop unharmed as they are not eating it. Of course it's better to have the plant contain the pest killer as opposed to drenching the whole environment in it.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Some great questions Chickengeorgeto

For question one:

Yes they are. It take years of research and animal testing to develop a new GM variety and have it approved for sale. The regulations are very tight for GM crops, it's a very long multi-step proses . Researchers and regulators have found no significant health concerns specifically relating to the GM varieties currently on the market which are all FDA approved. They're safe. In fact there was recently a huge review done, including almost 2,000 scientific papers, where researchers looked at all of the research over the past decade on GM safety (which you can read here - An overview of the last 10 years of genetically engineered crop safety research: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07388551.2013.823595) in which they state "The scientific research conducted so far has not detected any significant hazards directly connected with the use of GE crops"



For question two:

Well for a start a tomato would not be able to cross pollinate with a magnolia tree as they are too distantly related. But it is theoretically possible for closely related plant species to cross pollinate. Although the offspring would likely be sterile.

The older varieties are not intensely tested for safety like GM varieties, but they have gone through generations of consumption without any noticeable concerns.
Bottom line: stop worrying and just eat your dinner

For question three:

Yes. The pest resistant varieties reduce pesticide applications, so that's a good thing. Pesticides are costly for the farmer and do have negative effects on the environment. For example, pesticides kill multiple species including some beneficial insects, whereas GM pest resistant crops target a specific pest leaving other beneficial insects unharmed. The pest eats the crop and dies, and the beneficial insects live on the crop unharmed as they are not eating it. Of course it's better to have the plant contain the pest killer as opposed to drenching the whole environment in it.

What are the benefits of NO TILL farming?

Isn't it true that NO TILL farming as pioneered by Monsanto prevents untold millions of tons of precious top soil from being lost or washed into the world's oceans each and every year?

 

[aart]

Monsanto pioneered no till planting?!?

 

[Demidog]

I'm not sure that Monsanto pioneered no till farming, but yes no till prevents soil erosion. Here is a great video on this subject:

"University of Georgia professor Wayne Parrott explains how genetically modified crops can play a key role in agricultural sustainability improvements, from increasing biodiversity and yields to increasing quality of life for subsistence farmers. Parrot discusses how GMO versus non-GMO crops can reduce the use of fossil fuels, decrease soil erosion, and improve the land for wildlife."

 

[aart]

I'm not sure that Monsanto pioneered no till farming, but yes no till prevents soil erosion. Here is a great video on this subject:

"University of Georgia professor Wayne Parrott explains how genetically modified crops can play a key role in agricultural sustainability improvements, from increasing biodiversity and yields to increasing quality of life for subsistence farmers. Parrot discusses how GMO versus non-GMO crops can reduce the use of fossil fuels, decrease soil erosion, and improve the land for wildlife."

'No till' is nothing new, that's for sure......
......and you can reduce the use of fossil fuels, decrease soil erosion, and improve the land for wildlife without using GMO's.

The patent issues around GMO's is what I find the scariest aspect.

 

[Demidog]

'No till' is nothing new, that's for sure......
......and you can reduce the use of fossil fuels, decrease soil erosion, and improve the land for wildlife without using GMO's.

The patent issues around GMO's is what I find the scariest aspect.

Other companies patent their seed though, not just Monsanto. And after a few years it comes off patent and other companies are allowed to copy and produce their own seed under they're own brand name. This is nothing specific to GM crops. There are loads of seed companies producing new varieties and they all have patents on the new seeds they produce. That's how it works. Just like the pharmaceutical industry when new drugs are produced.

Some GM crops are F1 varieties, and just like other F1's developed through traditional plant breeding, they're genes get mixed in the second generation which produces an erratic uneven crop. Some corn will be tall, others short, some will have tiny cobs others wont produce any etc. That's why farmers want to buy new F1 seed every year from the seed companies; because they get a reliable crop which maximizes yield and they get some insurance from the company if their crop was to fail. Farmers are free to choose to buy F1 seed or to produce their own. But most farmers, large scale farmers especially, prefer to buy F1 because it's more profitable. F1 varieties are superior to traditional varieties, they have qualities that's not possible in the parent plants. They're better, and farmers know that, that's why they buy them.

 

[aart]

GMO's are not like other cross bred hybrids.
When farmers are sued for patent infringement because of pollen drift from GMO, that's just not right.
That's not the only problem with the pollen drift.

 

[Demidog]

GMO's are not like other cross bred hybrids.
When farmers are sued for patent infringement because of pollen drift from GMO, that's just not right.
That's not the only problem with the pollen drift.

F1 GM crops ARE cross bread hybrids. They have cross bread two parent plants to get the new variety: F1 HYBRID. That's how all hybrids are created, GM or not. All industrial corn is produce this way.

A lot of pollen drifts. Not a specific problem to GM crops.

Syngenta produce a sunflower variety which we grow, it's an F1 hybrid - not GMO - that is resistant to certain herbicides. This variety was created when wild sunflowers were discovered growing round the edges of farmers fields which had developed a mutated gene making them resistant to some herbicides the farmers were using . They cross the resistant sunflower with the commercial varieties to create new resistant F1 varieties. They've created many herbicide resistant sunflower varieties this way by crossing different parent plants, and several seed producers have developed their own resistant varieties.