GMO soy and corn in chicken feed? Discussion

[raingarden]

If traditional crops and techniques and our civilization mean massive farms of row crops and such for 2% or less of the population to feed everyone, then maybe.

If traditional crops and techniques includes gardens, backyard chickens, small truck farms, and such by more of the population, done with sustainable ag techniques like extensive composting and Rainwater harvesting (Brad Lancaster) then maybe not.

Sorry, I was referring to the pre-GMO type of agribusiness fostered by Twenieth Century Green Revolution. These days, very few people can afford healthy food that is sustainably produced or have the time, space and expertise to grow it themselves.

 

[Iluveggers]

I agree with a lot of what you said.
Not so much this part, depending on what is meant by traditional crops and techniques and by collapse of our civilization.

If traditional crops and techniques and our civilization mean massive farms of row crops and such for 2% or less of the population to feed everyone, then maybe.

If traditional crops and techniques includes gardens, backyard chickens, small truck farms, and such by more of the population, done with sustainable ag techniques like extensive composting and Rainwater harvesting (Brad Lancaster) then maybe not.

Love this thank you.

 

[saysfaa]

...or have the time, space and expertise to grow it themselves.

True, with the current choices most people make.

The expertise; this is the information age, such information isn't hard to find.

The space; about 70ish percent of the US population describes their neighborhood as suburban or rural, most of them have lawns that would be space for a garden big enough to grow vegetables for most families. For people in multifamily housing, community gardens could accommodate many of them. There are various models of community gardens. When we lived in an apartment a couple of years ago, the complex managers put a community garden in - deer fence, freeze hydrant, and wood chip walkways.

The time; I just looked up the average amount of time people spend on social media per day, the amount spent watching tv, the amount spent on sports, leisure, recreation.

This isn't even getting to more significant changes like reversing the trend of concentrating so many of the jobs and so much of the population into urban and suburban areas. Or accepting a simpler lifestyle to free up time and opportunity to grow food.

We wouldn't have to all grow food, or for any to grow all their food, to shift enough pressure off the current system to allow at least mostly traditional varieties.

This is what the US could do, other parts of the world maybe could do similar things or different things. I don't know if all regions could do enough.

 

[NatJ]

@saysfaa I agree with all of your points, when they apply to people who WANT to raise some of their own food. But I don't think it's as easy, or as widely applicable, as you imply.

The expertise; this is the information age, such information isn't hard to find.

Yes, it's easy to look up how to do something.
But I would say "expertise" has more to do with actually knowing how (including experience.)

For an example, look at all the people who try to grow vegetable gardens. The first few years tend to be inefficient, and full of failures in one crop or another. (And by then, some people have given up.)

I do recognize that if it most people to grew gardens, it would be easier for new people to learn, because they would probably have a neighbor who already did. The experienced person can often tell in a few minutes what the new person would spend hours trying to figure out.

The space; about 70ish percent of the US population describes their neighborhood as suburban or rural, most of them have lawns that would be space for a garden big enough to grow vegetables for most families.

You are assuming the lawns get enough sunlight. Houses cast shade, and many subdivisions have large trees that also make shade. Between the shade and the tree roots, this can severely limit a person's ability to grow food.

Also, converting the lawn to garden would mean no lawn.
Whether the lawn is needed will depend on what each family uses it for.
For example, it is not good for children or dogs to run & play in a vegetable garden!

Also, an unfenced yard (especially next to a sidewalk or street) is not always a safe place for a garden: it can get trampled, contaminated by dog waste, things picked by people walking past, and so forth.

The time; I just looked up the average amount of time people spend on social media per day, the amount spent watching tv, the amount spent on sports, leisure, recreation.

Yes, people could do more important things (like raising their own food) instead of those things that seem less important-- but people also have some need to relax and do pleasant things, and not everyone finds it relaxing or pleasant to raise any of their own food.

 

[saysfaa]

Choices. Not can't be done.

 

[3KillerBs]

not everyone finds it relaxing or pleasant to raise any of their own food.

To even be able to ask the question of whether or not GMO food -- high-yield, pest-resistant, and enhanced in nutrition -- is good or bad is strictly a first-world concern.

Likewise for romanticizing subsistence farming -- each family providing most, if not all, of their food lest they starve, laboring dusk to dawn at both their crop-tending and their paid job with no time to waste on leisure.

That it is an enjoyable hobby for the vast majority of us here on this forum doesn't mean that it would work to feed the world reliably.

 

[Fallenone05]

For example, it is not good for children or dogs to run & play in a vegetable garden!

I beg to differ. I have plenty of fond memories of running through my neighbor's corn field and garden when they had a massive tilled yard. I ate so much fresh produce and it was *so* fun playing tag in the corn and chasing after the dogs!

The rest of your point about it being enjoyable for others though hits home - i LOVE gardening but I am absolutely awful at it and can barely get a tomato to grow. I can raise herbs with a green thumb but actual produce just dies on me.. i can't live off oregano.

 

[NatJ]

I beg to differ. I have plenty of fond memories of running through my neighbor's corn field and garden when they had a massive tilled yard. I ate so much fresh produce and it was *so* fun playing tag in the corn and chasing after the dogs!

I know of many more cases where the children and/or dogs were highly unwelcome in gardens, because they trampled plants and knocked things over, but I'm glad to hear that it can work sometimes!

 

[Fallenone05]

I know of many more cases where the children and/or dogs were highly unwelcome in gardens, because they trampled plants and knocked things over, but I'm glad to hear that it can work sometimes!

Us kids and the dogs always ran in the rows between plants. I don't recall them ever running through but they were always bigger dogs like Danes. They might have messed up a section of the garden hunting for moles at some point though, I'm sure.

 

[saysfaa]

I rewrote this, like, ten times. Some of the difficulty is personal experience with the choices of some of my family members.

A shady lawn is great. So is room for kids to run. So is having dogs. So is having relaxing indoor hobbies.

That something is a great thing to have doesn't mean there aren't consequences to choosing it. Or that there aren't alternative ways to get the important part of that great thing (community garden, small parks encircled by homes).