Goat experts and opinionated people needed: ivermectin vs herbals

[Skyesrocket]

Sorry to hear about the buckling. I'm glad it worked out for the doe. I have a big gal here that came to me a boney looking, long hooved mess. You wouldn't know it to look at her now. But in Lucy's case, she stayed sweet even after she got back to normal. She turned out to be the nicest to be around goat I ever had. As close to a "goat with manners" as I have ever seen.

 

[freemotion]

Quote:
Hey, Bee!

We must've been typing at the same time, I missed your howdy-do! Love your new sig line!

 

[Beekissed]

Yeah....that came from a conversation that is now locked down, but pretty funny all the same!

 

[freemotion]

Quote:
How good of you to rescue Lucy!

 

[Beekissed]

I think when folks think of deworming using natural means they always think of herbal dewormers and nothing else. I've read posts that say they didn't work over a long period of time, weren't effective on all worms, etc.

I don't use herbal de-wormers at all but I still consider my methods with sheep to be as all natural as I can get. I think for this to work, one has to combine some good flock management along with the de-wormer. Like pasture rotation, keeping a closed flock, providing a good diet and attempting to develop a strong herd via culling any animals that are prone to parasitic infestations. I even use several methods of de-worming such as garlic, pumpkin seeds, Shaklees and keep up a good probiotics program with UP ACV.

I would also like to explore doing my own fecals, like Free.

 

[KinderKorner]

You can worm goats after 3 months of being pregnent. Early stages with wormer causes defects.

Get the Ivermectin. It works the best. We had a buck kid getting terribly thin. Tried that, and within jsut a few days he looked so muched better.

If you don't want to do that. Get some Positive Pellet from the feed store. It doesn't work as good, but it should help.

In my opinion. I don't think anything herbal would be strong enough to get rid of worms if they are so bad.

I thought they were more as a prevention.

 

[freemotion]

Neither thinness nor worms are a problem here. So no need for ivermectin or pellets of any kind. The thin goat was a starved rescue a year ago.

I am really much more interested in facts (or opinions based on facts) than simply opinions when it comes to deworming....so that is why I learned to run my own fecals.

So for anyone reading this who is concerned about the well-being of my goats, I assure you they are now all in great shape and healthy and happy, expressing their goatiness, to paraphrase Joel Salatin (loosely!) This includes the desperately thin goat of the original post, about year ago, who was starving, not wormy.

I won't be giving anyone here dewormers, either herbal or chemical, unless fecal exams dictate the necessity. MY opinion (based on facts) is that worming by the calender encourages worm species to adapt through un-natural selection, when the individuals with the shortest time to reproductive maturity survive to reproduce, and their offspring do the same, until we have a population of worms that mature and breed so quickly that the chemical wormers are no longer functionally effective.

 

[dragonchick]

Running fecals is the best tool a goat owner can have. With this tool you know what your dealing with. Do you have a worm problem or is it cocci or something else? Is your wormer working or do you need to advance to a different type?

I have found that in my area Ivermectin does not work when given orally. If I give it as an injection it works much better. Ivermectin injections are very painful but the alternative for me is a dead goat. With the injection you don't give as much either. The injection gets the medicine into the blood stream much quicker and the worms die off slowly rather than all at once which could cause a blood loss problem.

The herbal wormers do not work in the southern areas and the chemicals are fast becoming useless. I am hoping the copper bolus will help make worming less needed here.

 

[freemotion]

So far I have no worm problem to speak of.

I'm not complaining! It may have to do with the fact that my pasture had not had animals on it for decades, and had grown up into woods. I had it cut and returned to pasture, and it is quite large compared to the number of goats I have. I had horses in mind when I made it. Now I am horseless and the economy makes me stay with just goats for the time being.

It may have to do with all the things I do to support the health of my animals, from digestion to immune system function. Everyone gets home-grown, live probiotics daily. You can't buy that in a powder!

 

[miss_thenorth]

Hey Free, I realize this is an o l d thread, but You just mentioned something that has prompted a question.

And it's not about goats either, but seasonal deworming. I haven't gotten a microscope yet, but it's in the works. So, we worm our horses on a rotational basis. what would you recommend for them? Would you say continue as before until I get the microscope, then learn to run fecals and do as needed?