Goat getting ready to kid? Help?

[H Diamond]

Lol, no, not tmi. Just warm up the milk and give it a try. Get a little on the end, you may have to pry baby's mouth open. Insert the bottle, then with your hand under the chin and thumb around the top squeeze his mouth shut a few times. If he is hungry, he should start sucking. If you try it a few times and he is adamentally rejecting it he may be getting enough. It's so hard for me to say without seeing/feeling him.

 

[VKat]

They aren't going to be "full" per se. You can just feel that they aren't empty. It's hard to explain, lol. If you bottle feed a baby they get a "full" tummy. When babies are on momma, they just take little slurps here and there at first. So, they are never going to really be full. If mom has milk, and they babies aren't getting weak, then they are more than likely getting milk. Especially if they don't care about milk coming from a bottle. Try the whole milk (make sure you warm it up) and if the baby doesn't really care about that either, I would guess they are probably getting enough to eat.

Don't worry about undoing the bonding, you didn't. A little bit apart isn't going to undo things. That being said, the first few days, momma doesn't really leave her kids to do much but eat, so don't worry about momma.
Some people have varying opinioins, but in my opinion, if you keep things super clean all the time, babies can't develope the immune system they need. So, don't worry so much about that.

Are the kids acting strong? Up standing good? Walking around, thinking about starting to hop a bit? You say the buckling cries all the time, and that concerns me a bit. Usually they only cry a lot if they are hungry or in pain.

Back to the bellies... do they still look sunken in? They aren't going to feel firm really, just not sunken in and empty. You might try uploading a pic, see if I can help you more. This is something that's just hard to explain, lol.

Also, are you giving mom grain? If not you probably need to be.

Thanks!
He does seem weaker than his sibling. He falls over a lot and cries a lot. When he tries to nurse on the mom, he only stays on a teat for the briefest moment *if* he finds one at all. He is unsteady. And mom often moves which doesn't help.
I warmed up a little bit of whole milk, and offered it to the small boy kid, and he really liked it!
I let him have less than he probably wanted, and after he went and tried to nurse from mom. But I'd rather just make sure he has a little something in his stomach and hopefully mom will start producing and getting better at letting her babies eat. Plus I don't want to overdo it. Make him sick.
I also have seen mom neglect to clean his bottom, and she has stepped on him. She is more attentive to the doeling.
His sister is steadier and more active. She also doesn't cry out even a fraction as much. I offered her the bottle too, but she wasn't that into it.

I am giving the mom grain, and she also has nice hay in a bin in their area, and loose minerals. I'm feeding grain twice a day so it isn't a huge amount all at once.
I have not seen her eat hardly any hay though which has me a little nervous. But it's right there if she wants it.

How much grain should she be eating?

 

[H Diamond]

if he took to the bottle then he is hungry. If it were me, I would leave him with mom (unless she decided to reject him, which she may very well do. Sometimes one is all a first time can handle) and just supplement him several times a day. If you go here http://goat-link.com/content/view/94/76/#.VMmU3ikQHqC
and scroll a ways down, there is a chart for guidelines for feeding baby. The Nigerian amounts are in brackets.

Momma may just not be making enough, and what she does make the stronger baby is taking most of.

And get some more milk coming, lol.

 

[VKat]

Happy, hopeful update!
After feeding the boy, he napped a bit and was quiet. Just a few minutes ago he started to cry again. He was trying to nurse mom, who seemed oblivious to the fact and kept moving away. So I offered a bottle with a little more warmed milk, and he went to town on it! I bet that's the first time he has ever felt his little tummy have much in it. I didn't let him have too much, we took breaks between his tiny guzzles. And right around when I was thinking, okay that's probably enough, he stopped taking the nipple and just wanted to chew my finger.
All told I think he ate under an ounce. So I hope that isn't too much.
He is quiet again, not crying. I'm so relieved!
Best of all, mom didn't mind. She was standing next to me feeding him.
I offered it to the girl, but she didn't seem interested, and she peed. I take that as a sign she is getting nourishment and all from mom.
I am going to leave them together even if I do have to continue supplementing feeding with bottles. Unless she pushes him away, which she has not done. I think he gets overlooked easily because maybe she doesn't have the hang of things yet.

Anyway I'm happy to share the update.
Thank you again so, so much for the info, support and guidance. <3
One more question- to help mom be her best, how much grain should I give her?

 

[H Diamond]

That's a question I can't answer! I don't know what nigerians require. Is she on alfalfa or what kind of hay? Try to get your grain around 16% protein. Hopefully someone else can tell you how much a lactating nigie needs.

 

[VKat]

Oh my goodness! What a difference some food in the belly makes!
Baby boy had a third bottle feeding. I just respond when he cries and let him have as much as he is immediately focused on eating. And now he is a different goat!
He is steadier and bouncing and playful! I am laughing at the tiny clumsy antics, and beyond relieved to see this. Such a lively creature!
I must get photos to share!

Momma goat is getting Dumor pellets. They are 16% protein. Right now I'm mixing regular with sweet textured kind.
Hay is second cut from our local store.
I give alfalfa by the handful here and there so she won't have too much at once.
Maybe I need better hay? She still isn't interested in what is here despite having eaten the same pre-kidding.

 

[H Diamond]

Yeay!

I wouldn't cut the dumoor pellets, she needs the protein. Protein makes milk. She could use the alfalfa too. She needs the calcium in it. Otherwise she pulls from her body and that eventually leads to hypocalcemia (aka milk fever)

 

[Stacykins]

Oh my goodness! What a difference some food in the belly makes!
Baby boy had a third bottle feeding. I just respond when he cries and let him have as much as he is immediately focused on eating. And now he is a different goat!
He is steadier and bouncing and playful! I am laughing at the tiny clumsy antics, and beyond relieved to see this. Such a lively creature!
I must get photos to share!

Momma goat is getting Dumor pellets. They are 16% protein. Right now I'm mixing regular with sweet textured kind.
Hay is second cut from our local store.
I give alfalfa by the handful here and there so she won't have too much at once.
Maybe I need better hay? She still isn't interested in what is here despite having eaten the same pre-kidding.

Glad he is doing better. Funny thing, I do the exact same thing with the dumor pellets! I mix the two kinds so what they eat is 50% sweet 50% normal. The twits won't eat the non sweet kind alone, but am not fond of sweet feeds. So it is a compromise to get them to eat. I actually tried putting them on the non sweet kind for several weeks once, and nobody touched their food the entire time.

 

[VKat]

If anything I was wondering if I should increase her grain. She is getting a little over a pound a day now. But I don't like that she is ignoring her hay because I worry about her rumen and bloat is so scary.
I will offer more alfalfa. She likes that more anyway.
Thank you for the info about calcium! She loves collard green leaves too, those have a great calcium to phosphorus ratio. (Years of working with reptiles suddenly applies to goat care lol) the tortoise can share his collards with momma goat.

 

[VKat]

Glad he is doing better. Funny thing, I do the exact same thing with the dumor pellets! I mix the two kinds so what they eat is 50% sweet 50% normal. The twits won't eat the non sweet kind alone, but am not fond of sweet feeds. So it is a compromise to get them to eat. I actually tried putting them on the non sweet kind for several weeks once, and nobody touched their food the entire time.

Oh no they have you trained!
I hope mine don't decide the same. I ended up with a bag of sweet feed only because it was all the store had when my DH went by to get them food. I've been mixing it with regular because I heard sweet can create issues. They ate regular before. Hopefully after this bag is gone I won't have created sweet demand!