Gonna lose all my ducks, veggies, fruit trees, and maybe chickens too

[valmom]

Good luck, and get a good lawyer. One of the reasons we moved was to get away from wetlands on our property and any potential problems. Even if it is your property, you can't disturb it with planting, cutting, mowing, certainly not pasturing anything that poops.

 

[Drafthorsegal]

I'm not certain what your state law says, but in most cases Federal law trumps state laws in the course of these types of situations. I worked for years in the wildlife field as a biologist and one of my specialties is Riparian Areas. Riparian areas are the lands adjacent to streams and wetlands and their use. This whole thing will not boil down to when they formed the council verses when you bought your house or what you knew. The law states its the owners responsibility to know EVERYTHING about the land when they purchase it. The problem is, unless your a native american on tribal land, you don't really have much say with what you can actually DO with your land if it falls into numerous categories; wetlands being one of them. Wetland may not actually look like wetland at all, but if its efluvial (meaning it floods or is only wet part of the year - deep in the winter) then it can be classified as such and sounds like it is.

The first thing to remember is that government moves very slowly... and you can't be forced to do anything RIGHT away unless your doing something drastic like.... allowing cattle to go down to a stream and in doing so they are eroding the quality of the bank or such. You have the right to hire a third party group to look at your situation. Half the time when these scientists draw maps, they do it via 'ground sampling' meaning taking a sample here and there etc because they don't have the funding to look at EVERY area personally... or they use soil layers on GIS layers (satilite images of soil layers). A lawyer is a good idea but an expensive one. Just go talk to them first and foremost and don't panic. If its a wetland, I cannot imagine they are going to make you FILL IN A POND. Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard in the 15 years I've been a biologist or a retired one now. But again, we're talking about city officials, and sometimes they really lack info.

Also, take a deep breath and let the commission come out and mark the wetlands... that means your getting a first hand inspection not necessarily sent a letter based on an outdated map... trust me 2002 technology verses 2009 technology is VASTLY different. There's numerous new info studies as well. Also, be there when they do it... talk to the guy who's doing it. Its worth it even if you have to take time off work. Find out what criteria hes marking by.... is he marking just the map boundaries or is he actually marking via sampling? THAT is the critical aspect. Find that out. I know in my area we have consulting firms that will independently determine wetlands... there are laws that clearly define what a wetlands is and how they are defined. You need to find out how exactly they are making the determinations and what they are marking.

You might luck out and even be in the wetlands, or your house might set completely smack dab in the middle of them. It all depends on what lives in the area too. If you have say an endangered tree frog or something they can lean on the ESA and get you to completely change your property usage. The problem is.... as a homeowner, you have none of the power, the county has it all. So unfortunately the burden of proof generally falls to you..

Even if you have them.... lots of wetland rehabilitation includes planting trees and 'improving' cover in wetland. Of course we don't plant fruit trees to do that, we instead plant alder and such here in the northwest... not sure what you do over there, but I doubt its much different. And the mowing might be an issue too, but if you can prove you MUST mow... (fire danger? Get your insurance company invovled they have better lawyers than your county, trust me on that one)... the point being, there's always something you can do... even if it means getting your govenors help.

Don't give up or panic yet. Be sensible. Approach it in a way that keeps your feelings out of it for the time being so you dont knee jerk and miss an oportunity that might present itself. I know thats REALLY easy to say and really hard to do. But you gotta do it... seriously.

And don't give up hope... just don't jump to conclusions yet.

 

[Wifezilla]

Lawyer...yup yup

You may have a claim against your title insurance if none of this was disclosed when you bought the land.

 

[bishopschickens]

I dont know about wetlands, but flood plains expire. I never had to deal with a wetland while I was in real estate. If you got a survey when you purchased it it should have been on there. I would check with the attorney that did your closing for you when you purchased it. They should be able to answer more questions pertaining to your state's laws. You can start there for free and get an idea before having to retain one, or use that one.

 

[Rosalind]

Quote:
Get a real estate lawyer. NOW. Gather all of the documentation you were given at closing when you bought your house, and bring that plus the new notice to the lawyer.

This is something that was required to be disclosed to you before you closed on the house. Just about all states have disclosure laws when it comes to purchasing a home, and one of them includes any and all survey maps. Lying or omitting relevant information about the property (such as any wetland delineations, perc tests, surveying adjustments etc. performed) is illegal. Developers and sellers still DO it, but it is actually illegal in most states.

EPA may likely have nothing to do with it. Most of this stuff is determined by local committees, sort of thing.

Your lawyer should request, and receive, all surveying done prior to the development of the property; this is information that the developer WILL have, I promise you, although they might not be too happy to give it up. When you bought the property, was it all brushy type of woods, or was it landscaping/grass? If the developer had previously put grass down in the area, then the developer is the one responsible for destroying the wetland and must create some sort of remediation for it.

You can also have your own engineer test the area; in particular, perc tests are relevant, because if the soil perc's, then it's really not much of a wetland--especially with the 40 days of rain New England has been enjoying. I can tell you, all of our official wetland around here has been a freakin' mosquito factory, you wouldn't exactly mistake it for a flower-strewn meadow: More like a skunk-cabbage-strewn sewer. So you can challenge the 2002 engineer's designation, although that strategy is sort of dubious, sorta expert vs. expert.

Mostly the fault is on the developer for not telling you at or before closing. And since you were not told, they should be able to grandfather you in somehow--it's been non-wetland for so long, you weren't told and couldn't be expected to know, this is really the developer's screwup to remedy. Even if your lawyer cannot get the designation changed or get you grandfathered in somehow, they may well be able to get you a chunk of money due to misrepresentation of the property's use. I'm assuming you would not have bought a house with such a small yard, no chickens allowed, and so on, right?

 

[Camelot Farms]

Good call Wifezilla on the Title Insurance!

I always wondered why I paid for that...

Good luck Lovemychicks and keep us updated!

 

[michickenwrangler]

Document any wet/low spots in your yard, types of vegetation, animals that visit. See if any of them are inconsistent w/ wetlands. For example, if you have white pine growing that would be an indicator that it is not wetland since it needs fairly dry, sandy soil. If your land is well-drained (if it's clay, you may have a problem), then you could probably get around the whol wetland thing.

We have 6 acres, 3 of which are wetland, but the three on the high ground are sufficient for us to do what we need to, so we don't worry about it.

 

[lovemychicks]

I can't say thank you enough to you all. You are so nice and thoughtful, and I feel much better now. It's the worst long weekend I've ever encountered, and I was really panic when I found out that I might have a huge violation in my property without knowing anything. I will take your advices and contact my closing lawyer tomorrow, and talk to a soil scientist as well. I got laid off this February, so I really can't afford an expensive way to go through this. But I won't give up and I will try every opportunity. I hope this problem can be solved smoothly. Once again, thank you so much for all the help! I will keep you updated. God bless you.

 

[Krysstyllanthrox]

Quote:
If I am repeating information, I apologize.

I do agree with the lawyer advice since this information was never declared to you while purchasing the property. If they didn't disclose it, I don't think you can be bound by it. I do also agree with talking to a soil scientist. And here is how to track one down...

In your phone book look for "Consultants". The firm I work for is a Name of Company, Consulting Engineers and Scientists. We have geotechnical, construction, and environmental people here. When you call you need to ask to speak to someone about a wetlands issue, a possible deliniation issue. I know a former coworker had been certified by the state to be able to decide what was and was not a wetlands. If you can get them to issue you a letter that says your property isn't a wetlands, you're ahead of the game.

You are likely looking at a job in the $1000 to $2000 range for the field professional. Most places will work with you on a payment schedule if you cannot afford that up front.

We have an office in Rocky Hill, CT if you are interested in me telling you the company name just send me a PM.

 

[lorieMN]

umm,you might be SOL..but on the bright side you can move the trees and shrubs..