Apple trees - dwarf vs. semi-dwarf

[TooCheep]

@Acre4Me's basic point is correct. You want to aim for opening up the center to get more light. I start with trimming off any damage, removing branches that are rubbing/crossing and then go on to the proper shaping. I recommend watching some YouTube videos to get a better idea on pruning techniques.

One additional idea that you might want to consider. Some fruit trees are self-fertile and some require a partner. Few apples are self-fertile. But even many self-fertile trees benefit from a compatible partner and will produce more fruit. Since I have a small yard, I've actually learned to graft branches onto my trees instead of adding more trees.

I have a single peach tree, but my neighbor has a compatible peach and so I swapped pruned limbs on both via grafting to help us both produce more. I've also purchased scions (trimmed branch sections) on Ebay to graft onto my two pear trees as they are not compatible and I wanted more production. If you do this, mark the graft somehow so that you don't accidentally prune it off later.

Both pruning and grafting are an art, so you get better with education, practice and observation.

 

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

We bought a dwarf apricot for on balcony and terrace over 15 years ago. We planted in fertile soil in the garden. After few years it was growing to normal size. We pruned it to keep it reasonably small.

All fruit trees will grow high with long branches if you don’t prune. And keep on pruning every year or every two years.

fruit tree low stem, half stem and normal or high stem.

Instead of Google, I use Ecosia as my search engine because they spend 100% of their profits on the planet. We have planted almost 200 million trees! Give it a try: https://ecosia.co/200M

Thanks! So are you saying since I am getting bare root, I can control how tall it gets by choosing where the first layer of branches begins (via pruning)? Sorry, I am new to fruit trees.

 

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

That’s great that you will get some pawpaw trees! Here, they are understory native trees. Some years we manage a few to bring home from the local woods.

We have only bought bare roots in the past until we were unable to find bare root for a couple trees we wanted from Stark. The bare root that died last year is being replaced by an EZstart bc that is all that is in stock for organic (organic was the only available option last year, so that is what we bought bc we wanted that variety).

We have just under an acre, rural. But, we have a large barn and long driveway to the barn, so that takes up a lot of space. We planted 8 fruit trees along the driveway to the barn bc there was enough room between the drive and the property line to fit them in without risking encroaching on the neighbors. We then added raised beds for raspberry plants between the trees (several feet between ends of the beds to the trees). Raspberries do like sun, but get “baked” without a little shade, so we figured this would be a good solution. The other 6 trees are on the south side of the property, again near the property line, but with enough space so as not to encroach the neighbors. Our garden is behind and to the side of the barn, and the trees won’t impact the garden. Only 1 tree will be near a garden bed, and two are near other raspberry beds. Pay attention to where the sun rises/sets in the spring/summer months bc then you can place your trees in such a way as to have less impact on your future garden.

Good luck!!

Thanks! And I see you are also from Ohio. Yes, pawpaws are native. However, I've somehow never seen one out in the woods. Maybe I just have never known what to look for, but I also think up here in the Cleveland area, there likely aren't as many. All the more reason to plant them!

And thanks for the advice. I hope my fruit trees are a success.

 

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

@Acre4Me's basic point is correct. You want to aim for opening up the center to get more light. I start with trimming off any damage, removing branches that are rubbing/crossing and then go on to the proper shaping. I recommend watching some YouTube videos to get a better idea on pruning techniques.

One additional idea that you might want to consider. Some fruit trees are self-fertile and some require a partner. Few apples are self-fertile. But even many self-fertile trees benefit from a compatible partner and will produce more fruit. Since I have a small yard, I've actually learned to graft branches onto my trees instead of adding more trees.

I have a single peach tree, but my neighbor has a compatible peach and so I swapped pruned limbs on both via grafting to help us both produce more. I've also purchased scions (trimmed branch sections) on Ebay to graft onto my two pear trees as they are not compatible and I wanted more production. If you do this, mark the graft somehow so that you don't accidentally prune it off later.

Both pruning and grafting are an art, so you get better with education, practice and observation.

Thanks! And wow, all that grafting sounds like wizardry or something. Pretty cool. I'm still trying to master the basics so I'm just going with a single self-fertile variety for now (I'm thinking Golden Delicious because I like to eat apples fresh and bake). But this is all good to know for the future. My ultimate goal is to move out to the country one day and be able to have a larger garden/orchard, and more livestock.

 

[TooCheep]

Thanks! So are you saying since I am getting bare root, I can control how tall it gets by choosing where the first layer of branches begins (via pruning)? Sorry, I am new to fruit trees.

No. Lower branch height doesn't control overall height. Removing lower branches has certain benefits that may or may not be important to you.

• it may keep deer or other animals from browsing on your fruit trees
• if you keep trees close together (as I do in my small yard), it will allow you to walk under them
• it will open up light under the trees (particularly on the south side) where you can plant additional smaller plants like berry bushes

 

[TooCheep]

Thanks! And wow, all that grafting sounds like wizardry or something. Pretty cool. I'm still trying to master the basics so I'm just going with a single self-fertile variety for now (I'm thinking Golden Delicious because I like to eat apples fresh and bake). But this is all good to know for the future. My ultimate goal is to move out to the country one day and be able to have a larger garden/orchard, and more livestock.

Some people take grafting to an extreme. I keep it simple.

Here is a link to the "Tree of 40 Fruit". It produces fruit continuously for 4 months each year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_40_Fruit

 

[Acre4Me]

Thanks! And I see you are also from Ohio. Yes, pawpaws are native. However, I've somehow never seen one out in the woods. Maybe I just have never known what to look for, but I also think up here in the Cleveland area, there likely aren't as many. All the more reason to plant them!

And thanks for the advice. I hope my fruit trees are a success.

Pawpaws…you may not know what to look for. Here, we find them as thin, whippy-like trunks, very flexible. Look up and you will see their more distinctive leaves, so maybe print off a few leaf pics before you go walking in the woods. Around August, start looking for the green fruit, they are often in clusters of 2-3 fruits. Some years there are few, other years they are abundant. Here the fruit is ripe mid-late September, so in your area it might be later Sept. “Pick” the fruit by shaking the tree and collecting what falls. If they don’t fall off, they are not ripe. In the park that we find them, there are areas with several trees, and other areas of no trees. But, always understory. I know there are a few varieties of pawpaws to buy and plant, and may be selected for production or ease of picking or tolerate more sun so that they may be able to be grown for small markets. Maybe you are getting some of these kind, rather than just the wild native ones - it would be good to know.

 

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

Pawpaws…you may not know what to look for. Here, we find them as thin, whippy-like trunks, very flexible. Look up and you will see their more distinctive leaves, so maybe print off a few leaf pics before you go walking in the woods. Around August, start looking for the green fruit, they are often in clusters of 2-3 fruits. Some years there are few, other years they are abundant. Here the fruit is ripe mid-late September, so in your area it might be later Sept. “Pick” the fruit by shaking the tree and collecting what falls. If they don’t fall off, they are not ripe. In the park that we find them, there are areas with several trees, and other areas of no trees. But, always understory. I know there are a few varieties of pawpaws to buy and plant, and may be selected for production or ease of picking or tolerate more sun so that they may be able to be grown for small markets. Maybe you are getting some of these kind, rather than just the wild native ones - it would be good to know.

Cool! I'll have to look for them in the Cleveland Metroparks sometime. As for the variety of pawpaw I'm getting, I won't know until I get it. But my guess is it is a more native variety. I think the university is doing this for conservation purposes. Either way, I'm still happy to have the tree. Although, I may have to get two if I want fruit. I don't think they are self-pollinating.

 

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

Does anyone have experience with any of the following varieties? These are some of my options for self-pollinated from Stark.
Golden Delicious
Red Rome Beauty
Johnathan Red


What I am looking for is something that is reliable, very cold hardy (I think these all are though as I ran the hardiness zone filter to find them on the website), and with apples good for pretty much any use. I mainly use apples to eat fresh and bake pies, but I've also started making applesauce lately and I want to try canning apple slices. It would be nice if the apple had a long-ish self life, but that would be a bonus.

 

[Acre4Me]

So I just asked husband what kind of trees his dad has (E WA) and he surprised me by saying dwarf and semi dwarf!! So, his dad has over 100 apple trees - he LOVES apples. Here they are around 20-25 years old. You can see that pruning and the dwarf/semi dwarf rootstock keep them a manageable size.

He is skilled at grafting, and has grafted most or all of his trees himself. He uses irrigation bc he lives in E WA, a high dry desert environment, but thanks to the Grand Coulee dam, E WA is produces much fruit and veg. WA apples come from E WA.

Funny enough, my husband also LOVES apples, loves to make huge pots of applesauce. But, did not want to grow apples himself. His reasoning is that apples travel well and are readily available. Whereas apricots, plums, Asian pears are harder to find in stores or ripe enough to be delicious. So, instead of apples, we have plums, apricots, peaches, nectarines, Asian pears, and persimmons (partly bc persimmon trees are attractive and they are near the front yard, so.a little curb appeal on the side of the house).