Grandpa's Treadle feeder vs. chicken condo feeder

[Al Gerhart]

That's our feeder but here is a link to the main website, save $15.00 on the feeder. Ebay charges huge fees, even on the shipping that we don't make a dime off of, actually we ship for less than it costs us on Ebay. Which is why we mark it up $15.00 so we come out the same as when we sell it elsewhere.

http://thecarpentershop.net/mediumplywoodchickenfeeder.html

And there is no plastic used in making our feeders, all galvanized sheet metal, back is 28 gauge, door is 24 gauge, the rest is 26 gauge. Plastic degrades in the sunlight and cracks in cold weather, awesome idea for planned obsolescence of a product to keep sales going, not so good for the customer.

 

[BrushyHillGuide]

That's our feeder but here is a link to the main website, save $15.00 on the feeder. Ebay charges huge fees, even on the shipping that we don't make a dime off of, actually we ship for less than it costs us on Ebay. Which is why we mark it up $15.00 so we come out the same as when we sell it elsewhere.

http://thecarpentershop.net/mediumplywoodchickenfeeder.html

And there is no plastic used in making our feeders, all galvanized sheet metal, back is 28 gauge, door is 24 gauge, the rest is 26 gauge. Plastic degrades in the sunlight and cracks in cold weather, awesome idea for planned obsolescence of a product to keep sales going, not so good for the customer.

Thanks! Is there a "large" feeder? Since there seems to be a "small" and a "medium" I was hoping there might be a large. We've got 24 birds right now and we're thinking about adding more. So, it'd sure be nice to have bigger feeders.

 

[Sylvester017]

Thanks!

Is there a "large" feeder? Since there seems to be a "small" and a "medium" I was hoping there might be a large. We've got 24 birds right now and we're thinking about adding more. So, it'd sure be nice to have bigger feeders.

Something to consider from our experience -- If your birds free-range, you may not need one very large feeder but two mediums set apart from each other -- shy birds get bullied away from a feeder and nice to have two separate feeders so a bully chicken won't monopolize an only feeder in the yard. We have two separate treadle feeders about 8 feet apart from each other and two separate Brite Tap nipple valve waterers. Chickens are silly birds -- if one starts drinking suddenly the entire flock rushes to drink and same with feeders. Having more than one feeding/watering station gives the shy birds a chance to eat/drink at the same time the assertive birds do.

 

[Sylvester017]

Funny how the original poster didn't find it rude and said I made some good points yet somehow you are "offended"?

Here is how capitalism works.... buyer and seller find each other and one trades cash for the other's product. Both are happy with the deal or it wouldn't go forward. Being happy depends on being informed. So when the poster asked about assembly process I took twenty minutes of my time in a very busy day and laid it all out in great detail. I also laid out the reasoning why we do what we do and how it benefits the customer. That wasn't enough so the potential customer asked for more expense and trouble in making a new video. That is negotiating, smart consumer to try that but this isn't a large ticket item that has enough profit in it to justify spending time and effort to make a new video. So I said no. No meeting of the minds, no trade, he keeps his money I keep my product. A good outcome for both.

Now two points that some might think about. A: why not make a new video and B: Why not invest the time placating this customer and make the sale?

A: The much maligned single page of assembly instructions is enough for 99% of the customers. Some rave about how easy the feeder is to assemble. Two bolts installed in the only two holes in the feeder, then slip the treadle on and insert the wire link. The 90% of the other 1% find the video more than enough to explain things. There there is that tiny percentage that simply are not mechanically orientated as the poster clearly admitted to his credit. You know what? As a businessman I don't want that customer.

This is not a product you pull out of a box and stick it in the coop. It needs assembled, it needs the spring adjusted and usually the treadle bar has to be pulled to one side or the other. It needs fastened to a wall or post so it doesn't rock around. This is not a product for a clutz to be buying so the instructions are a bit obtuse on purpose so those sorts are discouraged from buying. Because if a person doesn't understand there will be some tinkering needed they are going to be unhappy with their purchase. Far better they purchase another product that will make them happy.

B: Investing the time and effort required to make one sale is simply silly. Past the reason above, to not sell to those that aren't capable of setting up the feeder, you don't want to sell to customers that need a lot of hand holding during the sale or afterward. We get calls every week asking to do a manual sale, the person is having problems with the PayPal system or in placing their order. Not our shopping cart, the PayPal gateway. Usually a low balance rejecting the payment, or they are shipping to an address that isn't listed on their PayPal account, or sometimes PayPal itself is down for a few minutes and rather than try it again in an hour they are quick to ask for twenty minutes of your time during a busy day at your main job when the website clearly says not to call with questions but to submit them via email. So you would burn $50.00 worth of shop overhead coddling a customer for a product with a profit margin of about $6.00. Not a good way to stay in business. You just tell them to try the process again in a few minutes and to check that their using the correct log in info and a validated shipping address. 90% of the time you see their order a few minutes later in the email.

There are a certain number of people that aren't looking for a solution to the rats or wild birds stealing their feed. They also want the retail therapy experience, hand holding, and sometimes some major hinny kissing. Fine, go somewhere else. The feeder that doesn't work well, that will fail in a few years, that costs 83% more, and costs 50% more to ship is there waiting to serve you because they have 1300% more profit to make it worth their while. Good for them. That is capitalism.

I started making these feeders to solve a major problem of the back yard community, rats and wild birds. The BYC community helped a lot in finalizing the design and beta testing it. The feeder started out low tech, made out of plywood because that was the only way I could make one at the time. As it grew in sophistication and cost we kept the price the same at $65.00 and were losing money on feeders before long. I kept it up because I knew that the Philippines shop eventually would come on line and lower the costs of manufacturing and I spent about a hundred grand getting there. A hundred grand over two years before I ever saw a single dime of return as it took that long to establish the plant and fill the first container and get the export permit. Now I can net about $6.00 per feeder if the customer is a normal person, with normal abilities, common sense, and enough tenacity and determination to invest in the time to set the product up correctly. So there simply is not enough profit in the feeder to hold hands nor is there enough profit to make me want to spend my time doing that. Let em go elsewhere, let them pay 83% more or 300% more for a Grandpa feeder. And thank God we live in such a country where we have those choices.

Thank you kindly for taking the extra time to explain the philosophy and dynamics of your business - that's quite an undertaking dividing your time like that between two businesses. We're just disappointed that we turned out to be some of the "obtuse" klutzes. Keep up the good work in the Philippines!

 

[Al Gerhart]

Sylvester017 has it right, two feeders are always better than one feeder due to chicken behaviour.

On the manufacturing side of the issue, we initially intended on making a larger versions, thus the reason why we labeled the first feeder medium. But prototypes showed us that making the feeder larger and increasing the poundage of feed stored meant using much thicker steel. More expensive, nearly impossible to punch rivet holes using a hand held punch which increased the labor to build, increasing the shipping weight and cubic footage, while the feeding area remained quite small. No one needs more than the 100 days worth of feed (for one bird) that the medium feeder stores, they would just be warehousing feed that wasn't available for the birds to eat. We experimented with making the door and treadle wider but at a point the wider door and treadle step becomes too heavy and too much mass for a single bird to move safely. A large feeder would either store a lot of feed but only make a fraction of it available each week or it would have to have multiple doors and treadles, increasing the complexity, be more expensive to ship than two medium feeders, and be about one half times expensive as using two feeders.

Twenty four birds, I have some customers that are able to use that many birds per feeder but they are usually broilers. Laying hens can barely eat enough to lay one egg per day so competition isn't a good thing. If the population is stable and the pecking order is established you might go 16 birds per feeder or if they have free range and can supplement their diet. On a small coop with limited area per bird we recommend one feeder for every 12 birds.

And Sylvester, I said the instructions were obtuse, not the occasional clutz that ought to purchasing a different feeder. In addition to the two businesses I run a political organization dedicated to holding politicians accountable to their campaign promises, a lobby firm for the people basically. If I could I'd build a human size rat proof door and install it at the Capitol.

 

[jomoncon]

I purchased a large size Feed-O-Matic feeder about 10 weeks ago. I love it!! It took the girls about 2 days to figure out the treadle feeder, but now it's no problem. The biggest benefit is far less wasted food. I had a whole flock of sparrows who had discovered free food. Before this feeder, when I'd go into the run, literally 100 sparrows would fly out. They were always hanging around the yard, with bird droppings everywhere. And you don't know what kind of diseases they can carry. Now, I still see sparrows in the area, but not in my run!! I also had a problem with rats. Now they're gone also. Not only is the food covered, but the design makes it almost impossible for the food to be scratched out.

The unit seems very sturdy with no sharp edges. The design allows the food to flow very smoothly down the chute. The large model holds over 25 pounds of feed. I know it costs more, but I get my feed in 25 pound bags since I can't handle the 50 pound bags. I'm really surprised at how long the feed is lasting.

My only concern is that only 2 hens can feed at time. With 13 chickens, they sometimes are jostling for feed. I wish I had bought one of these sooner!


http://www.hogslat.com/feed-o-matic-chicken-feeder

 

[mamakat74]

I purchased a large size Feed-O-Matic feeder about 10 weeks ago. I love it!! It took the girls about 2 days to figure out the treadle feeder, but now it's no problem. The biggest benefit is far less wasted food. I had a whole flock of sparrows who had discovered free food. Before this feeder, when I'd go into the run, literally 100 sparrows would fly out. They were always hanging around the yard, with bird droppings everywhere. And you don't know what kind of diseases they can carry. Now, I still see sparrows in the area, but not in my run!! I also had a problem with rats. Now they're gone also. Not only is the food covered, but the design makes it almost impossible for the food to be scratched out.

The unit seems very sturdy with no sharp edges. The design allows the food to flow very smoothly down the chute. The large model holds over 25 pounds of feed. I know it costs more, but I get my feed in 25 pound bags since I can't handle the 50 pound bags. I'm really surprised at how long the feed is lasting.

My only concern is that only 2 hens can feed at time. With 13 chickens, they sometimes are jostling for feed. I wish I had bought one of these sooner!


http://www.hogslat.com/feed-o-matic-chicken-feeder

This is what I got! I think you found a cheaper source than I did, though. (Except I got the smallest one that holds 11 lbs of feed - but there are only two hens in that flock, so it's perfect.) If this works well for us, I will need a second one for my other flock anyway, so I'm saving this link. Thank you!

 

[Sylvester017]

I purchased a large size Feed-O-Matic feeder about 10 weeks ago. I love it!! It took the girls about 2 days to figure out the treadle feeder, but now it's no problem. The biggest benefit is far less wasted food. I had a whole flock of sparrows who had discovered free food. Before this feeder, when I'd go into the run, literally 100 sparrows would fly out. They were always hanging around the yard, with bird droppings everywhere. And you don't know what kind of diseases they can carry. Now, I still see sparrows in the area, but not in my run!! I also had a problem with rats. Now they're gone also. Not only is the food covered, but the design makes it almost impossible for the food to be scratched out.

The unit seems very sturdy with no sharp edges. The design allows the food to flow very smoothly down the chute. The large model holds over 25 pounds of feed. I know it costs more, but I get my feed in 25 pound bags since I can't handle the 50 pound bags. I'm really surprised at how long the feed is lasting.

My only concern is that only 2 hens can feed at time. With 13 chickens, they sometimes are jostling for feed. I wish I had bought one of these sooner!


http://www.hogslat.com/feed-o-matic-chicken-feeder

This is what I got! I think you found a cheaper source than I did, though. (Except I got the smallest one that holds 11 lbs of feed - but there are only two hens in that flock, so it's perfect.) If this works well for us, I will need a second one for my other flock anyway, so I'm saving this link. Thank you!

All of you treadle feeder owners -- TY so much for posting your links and info. I contacted the Amazon listed company re their feeders and got an instant reply from them which was nice. Amazon is pricier for their items but they also have a good policy for standing behind the products on their site as we found out when dealing with a screwy Amazon seller. I was jazzed about the plastic parts on this Amazon feeder and was set to order the smallest size until I noticed in the closeup photos that this feeder opens with the lid coming up and out guillotine style. Even though the ChickenCondos are not a fantastic style and just a modified Chow Hound dog feeder at least the lid opens inward when the chicken steps on the treadle. Gosh, would love to find a treadle feeder with all the exact features I want. I may still get the partial plastic and metal Amazon feeder to experiment. And maybe try the Rat-proof one too eventually. My Chicken Condos feeders are a wonderful operating style with the inward opening lid except the treadle is made of lightweight wood and already chipping. It is functional but won't look nice for long. But like @jomoncon says the treadle feeder keeps the nasty mooching Sparrows out of our expensive feed. People call Mourning Doves and Pigeons "Flying Rats" but for us the #*!^# Sparrows are OUR Flying Rats around here - those Sparrows breed like Roaches and I for one am not willing to feed their breeding program!

 

[OScarlet]

I have one of Al's feeders

positives -- it is well made from almost all metal. It was quick easy to assemble and has lasted well, it was reasonably priced, it is easy to fill and the chickens quickly learned how to use it.

negatives -- it goes "ker-clank" when they step on it, it is loud. My birds are messy eaters and beak food out of it, Al made suggestions about restricting the amount of food that drops down with a cardboard insert but it didn't work well, I could do with a grill or something so they can't root around in the food. My dog raids it at night, she learned quickly to step on it and gets the food out... I put a brick under the peddle when I put them to bed but she has learned to push the door open. My smallest girl is pretty stupid and couldn't figure out how to use it without falling off the peddle. I made a bigger step and she can use it now. It is narrow and at most two birds can get to it at once and often they fight and push each other off it.

 

[OScarlet]

Sylvester, we have crows, doves and sparrows and a mocking bird my husband is really done with. The doves and sparrows are nesting in the tree above our chicken run. I'm sure they are thrilled with the fresh water and chick food currently on offer.