Grower/Finisher All Their Lives?

[Cindy in PA]

The down side to feeding the higher protein is the cost. I just switched my 18 week olds to layer pellets & they gobble them up. Hard to believe so many have problems feeding pellets. I still have some grower left, but when I put the pellets in they grab them. I like Nutrena feed, but just a note on the starter/grower. Last time I read ingredients on that feed it contained cottonseed meal, something I choose not to feed my chickens & something that can turn egg yolks weird colors in laying hens. They do carry meat bird Nutrena at my TSC that is 22%. Don't know if that contains cottonseed meal, but I would think not.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Alright, thanks. I'll look at the ingredients and see which looks best. And definitely agree on that last part; rich constantly get richer! You'd think there'd be a better distribution of money, but who knows. lol

I don't really believe the money should be "distributed", per say. I think you should get what you work for. It's just unfortunate that you almost have to have money to make money. It is VERY difficult for the less fortunate to get ahead. One of my liberal friends, (I'm more on the conservative side), is always ranting about multi conglomerate corporations... and this was kind of one of the first times I made the actual connection to who he is talking about.

He said when he worked for a moving company, the rich people were very rude. Never offering a cold drink or a tip. But the poor people were ALWAYS more thoughtful and giving. Which I can see being mostly true. Also, he was raised in the south and saw much more racism and police brutality than I ever have. Interesting how our experiences effect who we are.

Any feed you find with the correct (or close) protein level that you desire should be good, regardless of brand. What the poster said about cotton seed oil is true. I think it turn yolks a green color. I don't know if it effects the flavor, I would think it might. But hey, green eggs and ham!

 

[DesertBird]

I don't really believe the money should be "distributed", per say. I think you should get what you work for. It's just unfortunate that you almost have to have money to make money. It is VERY difficult for the less fortunate to get ahead. One of my liberal friends, (I'm more on the conservative side), is always ranting about multi conglomerate corporations... and this was kind of one of the first times I made the actual connection to who he is talking about.

He said when he worked for a moving company, the rich people were very rude. Never offering a cold drink or a tip. But the poor people were ALWAYS more thoughtful and giving. Which I can see being mostly true. Also, he was raised in the south and saw much more racism and police brutality than I ever have. Interesting how our experiences effect who we are.

Any feed you find with the correct (or close) protein level that you desire should be good, regardless of brand. What the poster said about cotton seed oil is true. I think it turn yolks a green color. I don't know if it effects the flavor, I would think it might. But hey, green eggs and ham!

Yeah, I get it. Coming from a fairly poorer family, it's definitely harder to work your way up. Especially because prices are increasing, but pay doesn't increase at the same increments, so some things are getting more expensive.

What a fun surprise - crack open my eggs and see if they're green or yellow. So the cottonseed oil isn't bad for them, it just changes the yolk color?

The down side to feeding the higher protein is the cost. I just switched my 18 week olds to layer pellets & they gobble them up. Hard to believe so many have problems feeding pellets. I still have some grower left, but when I put the pellets in they grab them. I like Nutrena feed, but just a note on the starter/grower. Last time I read ingredients on that feed it contained cottonseed meal, something I choose not to feed my chickens & something that can turn egg yolks weird colors in laying hens. They do carry meat bird Nutrena at my TSC that is 22%. Don't know if that contains cottonseed meal, but I would think not.

If I can't find a 20%, I'll probably grab that 22% and mix it with my remaining 15% like others suggested. Thank you, I'll look for it! Is there a downside to feeding laying birds meat bird feed?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Yeah, I get it. Coming from a fairly poorer family, it's definitely harder to work your way up. Especially because prices are increasing, but pay doesn't increase at the same increments, so some things are getting more expensive.

What a fun surprise - crack open my eggs and see if they're green or yellow. So the cottonseed oil isn't bad for them, it just changes the yolk color?



If I can't find a 20%, I'll probably grab that 22% and mix it with my remaining 15% like others suggested. Thank you, I'll look for it! Is there a downside to feeding laying birds meat bird feed?

Mixing it should be fine. I don't know if the cotton seed oil alters flavor as well as color. Seems like it MIGHT have made a fishy flavor when I read about it before. But way too many random facts in my head to keep everything straight.

I wouldn't worry about the label "meat bird, grower, starter". That won't matter. It's the nutrient content that you are looking for. As long as it is within acceptable ranges for your needs, it will be fine for your layers.. as long as you offer the OS on the side.

I came from the poorest of poor (doper) families, demanding their welfare checks. Had my first child at 16, got a welfare check too. Went to work for fast food, was a reliable employee working my way into managerial positions. Lived within my means and paid my bills. YES, living with room mates if need be! Had 1 friend who's grandpa sold me a car on payments so I could get to work. Possibly the break that made the difference for me, thank you Lee Roy! But not without the right perspective... which is accepting a hand UP but not EXPECTING a hand OUT. Worked hard, for not much.. but it was enough (yes I ate ramen ) and I was content not keeping up with the Jones'. Eventually got married. We work hard for what we have. It took sacrifice like not having cell phones and cable TV. Like going to school to do something more with our lives than expecting to support a family forever on minimum wage! Those jobs were meant to be for first timers getting their feet wet in the employment realm and learning how to handle themselves in future experiences. Now it's hardly the teens you see working these jobs. And I met a young girl working for Wally who was so proud of herself for moving out of her parents house and supporting herself, with a full time job at WALMART, the place everybody likes to bash for not paying fair wages or offering enough hours. Not ranting at all, just saying things aren't always what people make them out to be. Yep, I didn't go buy my kids brand new school clothes every season. We drove crappy cars and all that good stuff. Took a while for us to get right, but now we do own our house and our sons' house. I am in my 40's with hubby in his 50's. We didn't have it handed to us. Yes it was difficult and took a while to get here, where we don't wonder where the next meal is coming from. But it CAN be done, even with the cruddiest of beginnings. But it is MUCH harder for some people who's challenges and personality are different than mine. So to a degree, I just got lucky (really blessed)! Oh, and I don't do dope!!!

Way off topic, sorry. Thank you for letting me share though.

 

[Patinas]

Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth of opinion on this topic. I too have asked the question on here of feeding starter/grower year round and decided that is the way to go in my case.

I don't plan on using supplemental lighting during winter to keep egg production at a higher level. That means they won't need as much calcium during that time so feeding a layer feed year round doesn't make sense to me.

Also, when they molt, they will need extra protein as found in starter/grower. Apparently higher protein during molting promotes feather growth and helps stave off feather picking. Since they don't lay much while molting, no need for the forced calcium in layer feed.

In the case that I add to my flock next spring, with chickens of different ages, I won't have to buy two different feeds which is a plus too.

Based on the above, it just makes sense to me to feed starter/grower year round with OS on the side. That seems much easier than trying to switch feeds during winter and molting. Some have cautioned that starter/grower is too high in protein but since I let my flock free range part of the day, it's not like all they eat is commercial feed.

I feed Flock Raiser but I imagine any starter/grower feed would be fine. All of them have higher protein than layer feed. I have also read that Flock Raiser is really intended for meat birds and that it will make laying hens too fat. So far that is not the case in my flock of laying hens so that's a wait and see thing.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Using flock raiser for 2 years now, ALL of my layers are within their correct weight range for their breed. Yes, I have actually weighed them.

But as stated by @Patinas I also free range. Each situation MAY be different. I'd like to see a controlled study showing the differences.

For MEATIES, I did see a study showing increases fertility and longevity IF they were fed a slightly lower protein content verses many people feed 25+ %. Of course I think that does translate to overweight layer hens will have decreased fertility. But that doesn't actually mean to skimp out on the standard expected nutrient level, just DON'T feed excess. Guess it's kind of a personal choice as to what excess is. Ugh, too much info makes my head spin!

20% is a happy medium for me, not necessarily perfection.

Did I already mention to check out the fermented feed link in my signature line if you have time? Huge improvement in poo smell! On top of the other AWESOME benefits.

 

[Cindy in PA]

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Feeding Cottonseed Meal to Poultry
Small and Backyard Flocks May 05, 2015

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Written by: Dr. Jacquie Jacob, University of Kentucky

With each 100 lb. of fiber produced, cotton plants produce about 155 lb. of cottonseed. Less than 5% of the cottonseed produced is saved for the following year's crop. There are multiple agricultural uses for the remaining cottonseed. Whole cottonseed meal can be fed to ruminant animals such as cattle, goats, and sheep. Oil can also be extracted from the cottonseeds. (Before World War II, cottonseed oil was the major vegetable oil produced in the United States.) Cottonseed meal is a by-product of oil extraction that can be used in poultry feed.

Cottonseed meal has less crude protein, dietary energy, and lysine content than more-conventional soybean meal. Cottonseed meal also contains the antinutritional factors of gossypol and cyclopropenoid fatty acids (CPFA). However, new glandless cottonseed meals have been developed that contain almost no gossypol, making cottonseed safer for poultry to consume.

Cottonseed Meal in the Diets of Different Types of Poultry
The proportion of cottonseed meal appropriate for a bird's diet depends on the type of bird.

Broilers
Research has shown that if they are supplemented with lysine, broiler diets can be composed of up to 20% low-gossypol cottonseed meal. Cottonseed meal contains approximately 40% crude protein, although the levels of protein vary depending on the extent to which the hulls are removed before oil extraction. Although the protein level is high in cottonseed meal, the protein level is low in lysine.

Broiler Breeder Pullets
During the rearing of broiler breeder pullets, it is necessary to restrict feed consumption to prevent meat and body-fat deposition, which can adversely affect a bird's subsequent reproductive efficiency. Because cottonseed meal has a low nutrient density, it can be added to the diets of broiler breeder pullets to reduce the severity of feed restriction required during the laying period. The use of cottonseed meal as the main protein source in growing diets for broiler breeder pullets has been shown to improve flock body-weight uniformity with no subsequent loss in laying performance.

Laying Hens
In the past, the nonuse of cottonseed meal for the diets of laying hens had been due to the gossypol found in the pigment glands of cottonseeds. In laying hens, gossypol reduces feed intake and efficiency and leads to decreased egg production and weight gain. Gossypol also adversely affects interior egg quality, leading to yolk discoloration (olive color). Although low-gossypol cottonseed meals mitigate these effects, the CPFAs in cottonseed oil result in yolk mottling and pink albumen. So cottonseed meal should not be fed to hens while laying.

Induced molting of laying hens is a common practice in the commercial egg industry in the United States. Molting rejuvenates the reproductive tract, resulting in improved egg production and egg quality. In the past, typical molting programs involved reduced hours of light exposure for the hens and the removal of feed until the hens lost 25% to 30% of their body weight. Investigations into alternatives to complete feed removal have revealed that cottonseed could have a role in the induction of molt in laying hens. While cottonseed should not be fed to hens in egg production, diets with 50% ground cottonseed have been shown to be equally effective in inducing a molt as complete feed withdrawal.

Turkeys
If supplemented with sufficient lysine, good quality cottonseed meal can be substituted for soybean meal in growing diets after turkeys reach eight weeks of age.
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Here is an article that explains the cottonseed meal & laying hen problem. They say never feed it to laying hens. Note the green & mottled yolks & pink albumin. I personally wouldn't eat it, so my hens won't. Cotton is one of the most pesticide laden crops there are. Kind of like Purina's no soy feed that uses peanut shells, no thanks! YMMV Cindy in PA

 

[DesertBird]

Thanks, everyone! Just went to TSC and picked up 10 chicks and DuMOR Starter feed, unmedicated, with 20% protein. It's a little big, so my concern is the 4 day old chicks eating it (they probably won't have any issue lol) but it seems to be well liked by all of the chickens.

 

[barred2rock]

Thanks, everyone! Just went to TSC and picked up 10 chicks and DuMOR Starter feed, unmedicated, with 20% protein. It's a little big, so my concern is the 4 day old chicks eating it (they probably won't have any issue lol) but it seems to be well liked by all of the chickens.

New chicks? What breeds? And where are the pics?

 

[junebuggena]

Thanks, everyone! Just went to TSC and picked up 10 chicks and DuMOR Starter feed, unmedicated, with 20% protein. It's a little big, so my concern is the 4 day old chicks eating it (they probably won't have any issue lol) but it seems to be well liked by all of the chickens.

If the pieces are too big for them, you can always put it in a blender or food processor to grind it smaller. Personally, I've never had an issue with even newly hatched chicks eating starter crumble.