Grower vs Layer Feed for Roosters

[StrawberryMoon]

I find I have a lot of extra grower feed, but my chickens are 5 months old and I have read that they should soon transition to layer feed. Is there harm in feeding them the grower feed a while longer, if free choice calcium is readily available? Can the cockerels continue to eat grower feed even after 6 months of age, since they won't lay?

 

[Ol Grey Mare]

The most appropriate feed for a mixed flock is one not enriched with calcium(so, not layer). The calcium needs of laying birds can be met by providing calcium separately(ouster shell). Excess cslcium causes internal damage to birds not laying (age, gender, etc). Some folks are ok with that, others choose to avoid it. Our is entirely acceptable to feed grower or other nonlayer feed, many(myself included) use an all flock type feed from the first to last day a bird is in the flock....a dish of oyster shell keeps shells strong

 

[StrawberryMoon]

The most appropriate feed for a mixed flock is one jour enriched with calcium(so, not layer). The calcium needs of laying birds can be met by providing calcium separately(ouster shell). Excess cslcium causes internal damage to birds not laying (age, gender, etc). Some folks are ok with that, others choose to avoid it.

So, would the grower be ok? Or is the protein too high? I use the "Scratch and Peck" brand, 17%. They do forage and they end up eating a lot of plants, so I feel like they could use a little higher protein in their ration anyway. Thoughts?

 

[Ol Grey Mare]

So, would the grower be ok? Or is the protein too high? I use the "Scratch and Peck" brand, 17%.

I aim for 20% protein in my base feed

 

[StrawberryMoon]

I aim for 20% protein in my base feed

This doesn't cause obesity problems which inhibit laying? There's so much to read out there, it sounds like their meals must come out of a test tube or they'll all get sick and stop laying. But when I feed myself, I just eat a variety of healthy foods and it all works out fine. I appreciate your advice!

 

[WhiteWyan]

This doesn't cause obesity problems which inhibit laying? There's so much to read out there, it sounds like their meals must come out of a test tube or they'll all get sick and stop laying. But when I feed myself, I just eat a variety of healthy foods and it all works out fine. I appreciate your advice!

I'm not a nutritionist but I have shopped around a lot. I see formula food for chickens/birds being marketed for different purposes. Looks like %protein is a big deal.

Layer pellets/ crumbles usually 15-17%
Chick starter/grower 17-18%
Multi flock starter/grower (turkeys or chickens or ducks) is 20-22%
Gamebird is like 22-24% (pheasants/quail/turkeys for meat)

I'm thinking protein is best for growing flesh and bones. But chickens laying eggs are putting a lot of protein into the eggs (not just calcium for the shell).
Also if layer formula is typically 15-17% protein, that means that is sufficient if it is the sole ration. A laying hen who is fully grown (6months or so I'm guessing) needs that as her protein. However, if she has anything in her diet other than the pellet formula, (food scraps fruit veg corn bread grass bugs), I don't think it hurts to give a higher protein% in the formula. That way the complete diet of what she is eating throughout the day ends up around 15-17% protein, comprising of 20-22% protein pellets and side dishes of treats and forage.


Wow that was long winded. Hope it made some sort of sense. I think test tube food isn't bad for making sure you are giving complete nutrition, but I think it's probably boring for an animal with an instinct to forage to deprive it of food variety.
Every time I give my chicks something new (like stale popcorn yesterday) there is always a big hustle to investigate the new food item. Some of them are quite vocal about the appearance of something novel.

 

[lazy gardener]

This doesn't cause obesity problems which inhibit laying? There's so much to read out there, it sounds like their meals must come out of a test tube or they'll all get sick and stop laying. But when I feed myself, I just eat a variety of healthy foods and it all works out fine. I appreciate your advice!

Ask a dozen BYC folks and you'll get at least 14 different replies. I have no qualms about feeding layer to my roos. My avatar roo will be 4 this spring, and sadly will need to go in order to make room for new blood. I expect he'd easily live an other 4 or more years. My routine is this: if I have youngsters, the entire flock gets unmedicated starter. The entire flock goes on layer any time after the pullets get their cluck. This means they are entering "puberty".

I have changed my stance regarding the protein issue over the last few years. I used to be in the "more is better" camp. Now, not so much. While "they say" that birds should not have layer if they are not actively laying, some of the "they say" folks also advocate for higher protein. I get that. Theory goes that is birds are getting extra snacks, that decreases the overall protein content of the diet, and layer is "bare bones" (what ever will meet the standard is what goes into the bag. The manufacturer is bagging that feed to make a profit, not to provide superior nutrition)
Where I leave the pack and march to my own drummer is regarding "extra protein". I don't molly coddle my flock. They get fermented feed (that process actually increases the total protein, specifically Methionine and Lysine, and B vitamins in the feed.) My birds don't get scratch unless it's used as black mail to get them back into their run in a hurry. They get plenty of free range (IMO free range provides a nice balance of veggies and protein)

So, I don't have a need to buy the more expensive, higher protein feed. What "they say" folks fail to take into consideration is the correlation between high protein diets and the incidence of gout.

While some literature indicates that extra calcium in layer CAN cause gout and renal failure in non laying birds, that does not mean that it WILL. Am I irresponsible in my approach? Depends on who you ask!

One very important consideration, no matter what you choose to give your flock: Feed older than 6 weeks is rapidly loosing it's nutrients. The grains are becoming rancid. The proteins are breaking down. What ever you choose to feed, be sure it's not old feed! Check the mill date on the bottom of every bag of feed. I walk out of the store empty handed before buying old feed.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Some people on here like to micromanage everything and overthink everything. I can be pretty good at overthinking things if you want some help with that, but I'm not great at micromanaging. Chickens have survived and thrived for thousands of years without commercial feed that exactly fills their every nutritional need. Some chickens do have special needs. Chickens raised for show, for example, need a higher protein diet because they need to reach and maintain a certain size. A lot of people sprinkle a little oil (vegetable or mineral) on their feed because it makes the feathers really shiny for those shows. There are other examples.

Some people think they absolutely need to give their chickens a high protein diet or they will not do well at all. The more protein they eat when growing the faster and bigger they grow. If they eat a high protein diet they lay larger eggs. Those kinds of things are important to some people.

To me high protein is not very important. I regularly feed mine a 15% protein feed, a fair amount of garden and kitchen scraps, and let them forage for a lot of their food. If I could get a low calcium feed in the 16% range I'd probably feed that but it's not available where I shop. My hens lay a lot of eggs but they are not double extra huge. The eggs still taste great and hatch into strong healthy chicks. My chickens are not as big as they could be but I don't have to worry about them hopping off a roost and hurting their legs because they are so big. My chickens get to run around, chase all kinds of creepy crawlies, and live like chickens. Mine don't get sick. Watching mine I don't feel I am being cruel or abusive because I don't feed mine a high protein diet. Some people on here would argue that.

Since you allow your chickens to forage you've lost the ability to micromanage their food intake anyway. But if you look at the labels on different kinds of chicken feeds you will see the only significant differences in the analysis are calcium and protein. All other ingredients are in the same ballpark. They will get a balanced diet in all those other ingredients no matter which you feed them. Don't just believe anything you read over the internet I encourage you to do those comparisons and see for yourself.

There is nothing wrong with feeding a high protein diet, they can handle that quite well too. Like practically everything to do with chickens there is no one way that is absolutely right and required for everyone. There are a lot of different ways that work.

 

[hlhutchinson]

I'm not a nutritionist but I have shopped around a lot. I see formula food for chickens/birds being marketed for different purposes. Looks like %protein is a big deal.

Layer pellets/ crumbles usually 15-17%
Chick starter/grower 17-18%
Multi flock starter/grower (turkeys or chickens or ducks) is 20-22%
Gamebird is like 22-24% (pheasants/quail/turkeys for meat)

I'm thinking protein is best for growing flesh and bones. But chickens laying eggs are putting a lot of protein into the eggs (not just calcium for the shell).
Also if layer formula is typically 15-17% protein, that means that is sufficient if it is the sole ration. A laying hen who is fully grown (6months or so I'm guessing) needs that as her protein. However, if she has anything in her diet other than the pellet formula, (food scraps fruit veg corn bread grass bugs), I don't think it hurts to give a higher protein% in the formula. That way the complete diet of what she is eating throughout the day ends up around 15-17% protein, comprising of 20-22% protein pellets and side dishes of treats and forage.


Wow that was long winded. Hope it made some sort of sense. I think test tube food isn't bad for making sure you are giving complete nutrition, but I think it's probably boring for an animal with an instinct to forage to deprive it of food variety.
Every time I give my chicks something new (like stale popcorn yesterday) there is always a big hustle to investigate the new food item. Some of them are quite vocal about the appearance of something novel.

So for clarification when you say a multi flock it's really a grower/finisher feed? I asked my feed store about an all flock feed and they looked at me like I had three heads. I want to have the oyster shells on the side that way they can eat what they need.

 

[R2elk]

Layer pellets/ crumbles usually 15-17%
Chick starter/grower 17-18%
Multi flock starter/grower (turkeys or chickens or ducks) is 20-22%
Gamebird is like 22-24% (pheasants/quail/turkeys for meat)

It depends where you are but I regularly use 20% protein layer pellets for my guinea hens and 16% protein layer feed for my chickens and turkeys.

I have found chick starter as low as 14% protein but the chick starter I use is 22% protein. I don't consider chick starters below 18% protein as a quality feed for anything.

Stores selling and recommending this "Multi flock starter/grower (turkeys or chickens or ducks) is 20-22%" as a starter for guinea keets and turkey poults do not have these bird's best interest in mind and are simply selling a product that makes them a good profit rather than what is good for those birds. The starter that I use for guinea keets and turkey poults is a 28% protein turkey/gamebird starter that has higher levels of niacin and thiamine.

There is a difference between gamebird starter and grower. The listing that you are showing is what passes for gamebird grower not starter.

You can find turkey finisher for meat birds. I have found gamebird maintenance feed that was 15% protein.