Growing fodder for chickens

[Wednesday]

"Research shows that eggs from pasture-fed hens have more folic acid, vitamin B12, vitamin E and carotenes than hens fed only grain or pellets. US research confirms that there may be a nutritional difference between free range and other eggs. However, some researchers have claimed that free range and cage laid eggs have the same nutritional value.
Some studies were undertaken specifically to demonstrate no difference. The research was funded by the corporate egg industry and the hens used were all beak trimmed. The 'free range' hens used in the research may have been allowed access to the outdoors, but as their beaks were trimmed, they could only eat the same grains and food which were available to birds in cages.
Any beaked trimmed birds have great difficulty eating grass, or picking up worms, spiders etc without a full beak - that's the fundamental problem with running large flocks of birds and calling them 'free range'. There are similar problems with much of the 'research' conducted here in Australia. The researchers often mean well, but the funding is provided with strings attached and linked to specific outcomes - so they are often required to meet those specified objectives rather than paint a true picture as a result of their findings."


http://www.freeranger.com.au/

I can't remeber where I read it originally but this pretty much sums up what I remember. And from memory it is the carotenes that make the yolks yellower and the chickens (and us) get these predominantly from green leafy veges

Looks like there is a difference of opinion on that:

http://www.foodandnutrition.org/May-2013/Why-Are-Some-Egg-Yolks-and-Eggshells-Different-Colors/

I would prefer chickens fed a diet of pastured grasses. But again, show me the science

 

[ChickensRDinos]

I think the problem is that there is very little scientific evidence to support the use of sprouted grains in poultry. In fact, there is very little scientific evidence to support benefits of sprouted grain in the human model either. One one hand, you can't say the first chart of this study supports growing fodder since you are correct, chickens have crops, not stomachs. We need to see data on how it is absorbed by the crop.

If people want to grow some greens, I have no issue with that. However people are talking about total feed replacement and lower feed costs without anything other than anecdotal stories. That can be dangerous to the lives of a new flock owner who doesn't know any better. I have a friend with 150 birds that is investing significant time and financial resources to start growing fodder for his flock to replace all commercial feed without any real analysis. As a greens supplement, it may make sense if you have the time and energy and potentially more money than you are spending on feed now to invest. I think it's important to scrutinize things. At this point, it seems like the scientific jury is still out on what fodder can offer your flock as far as actual benefits (feed replacement etc)

I mean, I think the issue is what are you wanting to compare fodder to? A pasture diet? A commercial diet? A whole grain diet? The studies and articles you are posting are all taking about commercial farming situations and I am not really sure how that information can translate well to a backyard/hobbyist site. The other consideration is that on a site like this everyone has their own personal goals and situation and they vary really really wildly.

I think anyone who is going to create their own feed, fodder included really needs to do a lot of planning and research beyond an internet forum to get a good result. I would love to see more studies about fodder and chickens as well but the reality is that at the moment given my personal goals and living situation fodder is my best option. I am raising birds for fun but also for somewhat political reasons that make a standard commercial feed not an option for me. Soy-free, corn-free non GMO feeds are expensive and I have a tiny tiny yard so fodder is actually a cheap solution for me that not only gives my birds greens but does bring down the cost of feed to a more similar monthly price that a basic commercial feed would be. What is very cheapest option with the fastest production time for poultry is really of little value to me.

I think anyone claiming it is cheaper in all situations at all times isn't taking all factors into consideration but in some situations it will be. I think to say there is not science to support the benefits is a bit misleading -- there is not science to support that it is the best option commercially from a large scale cost/benefit/production analysis sure. But that there are not clear benefits to a hobbyist wanting to feed a green alternative diet? I think context is needed.

Investing a lot of money into ANYTHING without some real analysis is a bad idea. No farming practice is perfect for everyone.

 

[Phoenixxx]

Looks like there is a difference of opinion on that:

http://www.foodandnutrition.org/May-2013/Why-Are-Some-Egg-Yolks-and-Eggshells-Different-Colors/

I would prefer chickens fed a diet of pastured grasses. But again, show me the science

Carotenoids and other colour-producing nutrients are valuable anti-oxidants. By that fact alone, I would presume that a more deeply-coloured yolk holds more nutritional value (in the anti-oxidant department) than a lighter-coloured one. And DEFINITELY the colour comes from what they eat - when I was growing up we would toss the prawn shells (whenever we had prawns for supper) to the chickens and for the few days following we would get bright red yolks!

 

[tillyita]

Carotenoids and other colour-producing nutrients are valuable anti-oxidants. By that fact alone, I would presume that a more deeply-coloured yolk holds more nutritional value (in the anti-oxidant department) than a lighter-coloured one. And DEFINITELY the colour comes from what they eat - when I was growing up we would toss the prawn shells (whenever we had prawns for supper) to the chickens and for the few days following we would get bright red yolks!

That's really cool - I might try that - wait.....I don't eat prawns.....I wonder if yabbies would work?

 

[Wednesday]

I mean, I think the issue is what are you wanting to compare fodder to? A pasture diet? A commercial diet? A whole grain diet? The studies and articles you are posting are all taking about commercial farming situations and I am not really sure how that information can translate well to a backyard/hobbyist site. The other consideration is that on a site like this everyone has their own personal goals and situation and they vary really really wildly. 

I think anyone who is going to create their own feed, fodder included really needs to do a lot of planning and research beyond an internet forum to get a good result. I would love to see more studies about fodder and chickens as well but the reality is that at the moment given my personal goals and living situation fodder is my best option. I am raising birds for fun but also for somewhat political reasons that make a standard commercial feed not an option for me. Soy-free, corn-free non GMO feeds are expensive and I have a tiny tiny yard so fodder is actually a cheap solution for me that not only gives my birds greens but does bring down the cost of feed to a more similar monthly price that a basic commercial feed would be. What is very cheapest option with the fastest production time for poultry is really of little value to me.

I think anyone claiming it is cheaper in all situations at all times isn't taking all factors into consideration but in some situations it will be. I think to say there is not science to support the benefits is a bit misleading -- there is not science to support that it is the best option commercially from a large scale cost/benefit/production analysis sure. But that there are not clear benefits to a hobbyist wanting to feed a green alternative diet? I think context is needed.

Investing a lot of money into ANYTHING without some real analysis is a bad idea. No farming practice is perfect for everyone.

The problem is there are virtually NO studies to compare a total or supplemental fodder diet to any of the control feed groups you mentioned. Hence a bovine study since I have found no well designed studies that exist for poultry or really any other animal for that matter either commercial or recreational. if its equally as nutritious to feed barley or wheat seed since that doesn't change in 6-8 days of growth and water weight in plant is main weight difference, should you bother growing fodder? Isn't that ok to ask the question? If someone wants to do more research than this forum, good luck, there is almost nothing out there for a scientist or a homeowner and this is one of the first places that pops up in a search on fodder. Dig deeper in places like google scholar or vet school studies and you will find they don't exist. Many people who keep hobby flocks consider ideas and practices that were deigned and implemented in commercial business. Homeowners can't afford to fund expensive clinical studies. Basic questions like is it equally nutritional to commercial diet, more cost effective than commercial feed , produce more nutritious meat and eggs in poultry could all be answered and extrapolated to a back yard flock if a study existed.

Many people are not just raising chickens for fun and should be able to get reputable information to make an informed decision. If someone wants to feed their flock any diet they choose, that's up to them. If you want to go on "gut feel" or "hey, i think they like this more" that serves one person, you. I would hate to see anyone make a costly emotional or financial mistake because there was not at least a difference of opinion on a newer feeding alternative. Fodder businesses are popping up to make money off of people without any real data. I source my own meat from non commerical sources, eat organic and non gmo foods whenever I can and love having chickens and seeing pictures of free ranging chickens, dark orange yolks and trays of beautiful fodder. What you choose is up to you based on my aforementioned posts but information is a good, not a bad thing when making an informed personal decision.

 

[SavageDestiny]

The problem is there are virtually NO studies to compare a total or supplemental fodder diet to any of the control feed groups you mentioned. Hence a bovine study since I have found no well designed studies that exist for poultry or really any other animal for that matter either commercial or recreational. if its equally as nutritious to feed barley or wheat seed since that doesn't change in 6-8 days of growth and water weight in plant is main weight difference, should you bother growing fodder? Isn't that ok to ask the question? If someone wants to do more research than this forum, good luck, there is almost nothing out there for a scientist or a homeowner and this is one of the first places that pops up in a search on fodder. Dig deeper in places like google scholar or vet school studies and you will find they don't exist. Many people who keep hobby flocks consider ideas and practices that were deigned and implemented in commercial business. Homeowners can't afford to fund expensive clinical studies. Basic questions like is it equally nutritional to commercial diet, more cost effective than commercial feed , produce more nutritious meat and eggs in poultry could all be answered and extrapolated to a back yard flock if a study existed.

Many people are not just raising chickens for fun and should be able to get reputable information to make an informed decision. If someone wants to feed their flock any diet they choose, that's up to them. If you want to go on "gut feel" or "hey, i think they like this more" that serves one person, you. I would hate to see anyone make a costly emotional or financial mistake because there was not at least a difference of opinion on a newer feeding alternative. Fodder businesses are popping up to make money off of people without any real data. I source my own meat from non commerical sources, eat organic and non gmo foods whenever I can and love having chickens and seeing pictures of free ranging chickens, dark orange yolks and trays of beautiful fodder. What you choose is up to you based on my aforementioned posts but information is a good, not a bad thing when making an informed personal decision.

There will never be studies done on home made diets like fodder based diets, because there is no profit in it for anyone. Nobody will fund a study if there's no profit to it, sadly. Not even companies which sell fodder growing systems would profit since the systems are a one-time purchase. It is the same with raw diets for dogs and cats- no money in anyone doing studies on it, so it has never been done. However I see the difference in my dogs, and after nearly 8 years of eating an entirely home made diet, my Pit Bull's blood work is still pristine.

I feed what makes sense to me for my animals. What makes sense to me is fresh foods in a large variety, based on what the animal would eat in the wild. This model has worked well for my dogs, cats, and betta fish, and I expect it will work for my chickens too.

 

[Phoenixxx]

That's really cool - I might try that - wait.....I don't eat prawns.....I wonder if yabbies would work?

Some of the flavour gets in with the colour, btw don't know what yabbies are the prawn shells were an excellent source of calcium, though.

As for the diet debate, I agree that it makes sense to stick to the animal's natural diet as closely as possible for optimum health. But, that's not always possible which is why we're here trying to find cost-effective ways to at least replicate SOME of their natural diet while eliminitaing GMOs and other garbage. I only wish I found this thread a year ago!

 

[ashyndin]

ok first off, i fail ALOT but that does not stop me from trying new things. i am going to try the fodder. i priced wheat seed and it is $15.99 for a 50# bag. the reason that i want to try this is simple, when i put green grass in my coop my ladies abandon what ever food they are eating and head for the grass. they do the same with the fermented scratch that i made, they love it. if the fodder isn't a full diet i assume we will see the results in low egg production and ravenously hungry birds. all of the scientific talk is great but it is all talk. if people are out trying it and succeeding then it seems as though we can move forward. listening to the scientist is what has given us pink slime in the meat, chicken injected with chemicals, and slaughter foam. I'm all for getting our hands dirty and doing this the way our grandparents did, and figure this stuff out and share our finding here.

 

[Kassaundra]

There will never be studies done on home made diets like fodder based diets, because there is no profit in it for anyone. Nobody will fund a study if there's no profit to it, sadly. Not even companies which sell fodder growing systems would profit since the systems are a one-time purchase. It is the same with raw diets for dogs and cats- no money in anyone doing studies on it, so it has never been done. However I see the difference in my dogs, and after nearly 8 years of eating an entirely home made diet, my Pit Bull's blood work is still pristine.

I feed what makes sense to me for my animals. What makes sense to me is fresh foods in a large variety, based on what the animal would eat in the wild. This model has worked well for my dogs, cats, and betta fish, and I expect it will work for my chickens too.

In addition the field "trials" of people actually doing this successfully for their flocks for several years and having healthy happy productive flocks is just viewed as anectdotal.

 

[dudefromtampa]

I've read approximately 20 pages of this thread but didn't find where anyone successfully produced fodder during the Winter, (as in NorthEast U.S. Winter). For example, it's getting down to about 1 degree here tonight. Was wondering if anyone (using lights, heat, etc..) has had any luck in these extremes?

I had started my own fodder system aka the Jack Spirko method, a few months back. But even then, it seemed the temperatures were too low, getting down into the 40s at night.