Growing fodder for chickens

[Phoenixxx]

I think the problem is that there is very little scientific evidence to support the use of sprouted grains in poultry. In fact, there is very little scientific evidence to support benefits of sprouted grain in the human model either. One one hand, you can't say the first chart of this study supports growing fodder since you are correct, chickens have crops, not stomachs. We need to see data on how it is absorbed by the crop.

If people want to grow some greens, I have no issue with that. However people are talking about total feed replacement and lower feed costs without anything other than anecdotal stories. That can be dangerous to the lives of a new flock owner who doesn't know any better. I have a friend with 150 birds that is investing significant time and financial resources to start growing fodder for his flock to replace all commercial feed without any real analysis. As a greens supplement, it may make sense if you have the time and energy and potentially more money than you are spending on feed now to invest. I think it's important to scrutinize things. At this point, it seems like the scientific jury is still out on what fodder can offer your flock as far as actual benefits (feed replacement etc)

It would be nice to see a poultry-related comparison for sure, as I would LOVE to do away with commercial feeds or - at the very least - limit commercial feed to a minimum for supplemental purposes.

 

[Phoenixxx]

Could you use the cheap aluminum roasting pans for this? And if so how many chickens would one pan feed?

I'm using such tins, but I only have 13 birds so I bought 8x8 cake tins. Not sure if that's a good size or too much yet but I'm guessing too much.

 

[tillyita]

It has been 8 days and my wheat is only 2in. high. Is there a way to make it grow faster?

They grow quicker if it is warmer. If it is too cold they grow really slowly. You can still feed them if you don't feel like waiting for them to "mature"

 

[tillyita]

In regards to the science debate.... It is really hard to quantify the positive (or negative) affects of sprouted grain vs dry grain. Most of the analyitical techniques are aimed towards dry matter and dry material - hense why the sprouts have to be dried to be analysed! So your not really getting a true comparison - just the best comparison that is available at this time with these techniques.

For me the proof is in the pudding (or in this case the egg!). When feeding a standard layer raition - high protein/high calcium etc.... the yolk of the eggs is a pasty yellow colour, still tastes ok but not particularly pretty to look at. When on fresh greens the egg yolks go a vibrant yellow colour that is appealing to eat. The chickens become more active, their crests go bright red and they cope with hot (and cold) weather much more easily. In addition to that I have 3 years of feeding horses, cattle and sheep spouted grains and I've seen the improvements both in the animals themselves and in the meat from those animals. (and yes I know these all have stomachs and chicken don't but the changes are impressive!)

 

[Wednesday]

In regards to the science debate.... It is really hard to quantify the positive (or negative) affects of sprouted grain vs dry grain. Most of the analyitical techniques are aimed towards dry matter and dry material - hense why the sprouts have to be dried to be analysed! So your not really getting a true comparison - just the best comparison that is available at this time with these techniques.

For me the proof is in the pudding (or in this case the egg!). When feeding a standard layer raition - high protein/high calcium etc.... the yolk of the eggs is a pasty yellow colour, still tastes ok but not particularly pretty to look at. When on fresh greens the egg yolks go a vibrant yellow colour that is appealing to eat. The chickens become more active, their crests go bright red and they cope with hot (and cold) weather much more easily. In addition to that I have 3 years of feeding horses, cattle and sheep spouted grains and I've seen the improvements both in the animals themselves and in the meat from those animals. (and yes I know these all have stomachs and chicken don't but the changes are impressive!)

I have to admit I love the feeling a darker yolk of chickens fed greens gives me but don't think I have seen anything suggesting that makes it more nutrious. I would love to free range my flock full time but have predators. That's why I am looking at fodder. I am not a commerical feed proponent. Would love to elimate that too.

 

[tillyita]

"Research shows that eggs from pasture-fed hens have more folic acid, vitamin B12, vitamin E and carotenes than hens fed only grain or pellets. US research confirms that there may be a nutritional difference between free range and other eggs. However, some researchers have claimed that free range and cage laid eggs have the same nutritional value.
Some studies were undertaken specifically to demonstrate no difference. The research was funded by the corporate egg industry and the hens used were all beak trimmed. The 'free range' hens used in the research may have been allowed access to the outdoors, but as their beaks were trimmed, they could only eat the same grains and food which were available to birds in cages.
Any beaked trimmed birds have great difficulty eating grass, or picking up worms, spiders etc without a full beak - that's the fundamental problem with running large flocks of birds and calling them 'free range'. There are similar problems with much of the 'research' conducted here in Australia. The researchers often mean well, but the funding is provided with strings attached and linked to specific outcomes - so they are often required to meet those specified objectives rather than paint a true picture as a result of their findings."


http://www.freeranger.com.au/

I can't remeber where I read it originally but this pretty much sums up what I remember. And from memory it is the carotenes that make the yolks yellower and the chickens (and us) get these predominantly from green leafy veges

 

[Phoenixxx]

I have to admit I love the feeling a darker yolk of chickens fed greens gives me but don't think I have seen anything suggesting that makes it more nutrious. I would love to free range my flock full time but have predators. That's why I am looking at fodder. I am not a commerical feed proponent. Would love to elimate that too.

I can't free-range full-time, either, but not for predators - my yard isn't fenced and when I turn my back they tend to wander over to one neighbour's or another, lol! I want a herding dog SO BADLY but hubby doesn't want a dog just yet

 

[Skye_k23]

Quote:

~~Looks like you have quite a few trays going at one time Do you rinse them by hand OR...? Tell us a little more about how you work your set-up please.

Ok I have a 4 foot by 2 foot shelf that has 4 shelves on it . During the winter I do an 8 day rotation as the fodder grows slower. During the summer I do a six day rotation. So at any given time I have between 12 and 16 trays going plus the 4 buckets for the chickens.
I soak the seeds over night and then start two trays and one bucket every morning and then water everything by hand. I water two - three times a day. That is about it
I spend maybe 30 minutes total time on it every day. That includes the 15 minutes it takes to measure and cut for the rabbits. Because we do show rabbits the weight of rabbits is important so we measure the fodder for each individual rabbit.
The chickens get a bucket a day and the goats and horse get whatever is left from rabbits everyday. roughly about 3/4 of a tray 2x a day.

 

[SavageDestiny]

I suppose I don't need scientific studies to know what feels right to feed an animal. How would feeding the same grains that are in pelleted feed but sprouting them first be less nutritious? Taking the same sorts of ingredients as in the pellets but mixing and growing yourself is just a fresh version of the pellet. And it doesn't need a manufactured vitamin/mineral mix because nothing is being cooked, so the nutrients aren't being baked out.

I feel the same way about dog food. I know what dogs are supposed to eat- meat, bones, and organs. So that's what I feed. I don't believe any animal HAS to be fed pelleted, cooked, premade food. A varied diet of fresh foods that the animal would naturally eat and support itself on is all that is needed.

 

[Amiga]

I hope that as time goes by we can get some good data on the effects of fodder systems on the animals themselves.

In the meantime, we go with what we have - stories from people who are doing it, and the results they are getting.

I remember being told to watch my salt intake to keep from getting high blood pressure. Then I saw this. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/224097.php
While progress has been made understanding nutrition, sometimes we draw conclusions based on correlations, but we miss the actual causes.

I am glad for BYC and the opportunity to learn from others.