Growing fodder for chickens

[Wednesday]

It will always be that way, sadly. Dogs and cats have been eating raw diets for very many years now, but there is still a huge resistance to it in the pet world and people claim there is no evidence it is healthier, and all the animals leading happy healthy lives on it are not real proof. To me, the proof is simple... on kibble, my dog is bloated, gassy, greasy, itchy, bald and has constant diarrhea. On raw she is sleek, shiny, has a healthy coat and firm stools.

We as a society have gotten used to dry little nuggets being animal food, and change is hard for a lot of people. I will never understand how people think it's not possible to make an adequate diet of fresh, whole foods for dogs, cats, chickens, horses, cows, or any other animal... but we trust ourselves to feed HUMAN CHILDREN and make sure their nutritional needs are met.

Feeding humans a complete diet of greens, protein, fruits and other vitamins and minerals is the same only if you are doing same for homemade diet for your flock. Just giving fodder and calling it a day and saying that is a complete diet is erroneous. Of course you can feed animals a diet of homemade food if put effort into it. That's not the question here. The question is, " does fodder replace commercial feed or is it simply a nice supplement." "Does time and expense actually add any value to diet" .

The comparison someone made to wild jungle fowl does not apply to feeding only fodder since wild fowl have a rich environment off foraging options as she pointed out. If you are considering fodder it's because you either have limited free range access or weather won't allow greens to grow. Jungle fowl don't survive snowy winters with no food. They are wild in warmer climates that permits foraging. Commercial poultry operations squeeze every dollar of profit they can, their trade group would surely fund a study if they thought they could reduce feed costs and increase profit.


To the person slandering scientists for pink slime etc, remember your chicken vaccines, wormers, and antibiotics came from same people. Science has improved quality of life for people and animals. Feel free to rely on homeopathic everything if that's your thing.


Share all the stories and information you like, I still want to see reproducible results.

 

[pawtraitart]

For now, I'm basing the value of non-commercial feed supplements (including fodder) on how much it stretches my commercial feed amounts, cost savings, and the health/happiness of my birds. I have A LOT of birds so if I can save some money here and there it makes a huge difference. Since I started this thread I've fine tuned my feeding program a few times. My fodder recipe is a base of wheat and a small portion of black oil sunflower seeds and lentils. I grow my fodder to the six day point before feeding. My adult birds also get whole grains (sometimes I ferment it....sometimes not), and commercial feed. When I have an abundance of eggs, I hard boil eggs and smash it all up with the shells. I'm happy with the results. The only thing I'd love to add is a sustainable source of animal protein. I tried raising meal worms but it never really worked for me since I don't have a good place in the house for them. My husband wasn't too keen on bugs in the house, either.

 

[Whoops]

Honestly, I suspect a diet of straight single-grain fodder isn't any better than a human diet comprised solely of fresh kale. Variety.

But, neither dogs nor cats nor people thrive on a dehydrated diet. Even if water is offered free choice, cats develop CRF, dogs bloat and get gassy and smell like vomit (sorry, but kibble fed dogs do) and people develop digestive problems from over-processed food We learn words like "megacolon" and "diverticulitis" This is my quarrel with the one scientific study cited. It considers water a waste, instead of a vital nutrient. But chickens, people, dogs, and cats are all organisms comprised mainly of water, and chickens do very water-intensive things, like produce eggs.

If a cat fed a dehydrated kibble diet nearly always develops chronic dehydration and eventual renal failure - even when fresh water is available - and a dog may bloat, and a person fed bran powder with all the vitamins sprayed on it will develop possibly life threatening constipation, how on earth can we assume that a heavily processed, dehydrated diet is better for chickens? Water on the side is insufficient. It is insufficient for people, insufficient for dogs, insufficient for cats, and, I believe, insufficient for chickens.

Show me a study (not financed by a feed-producing company) that acknowledges the value of water, and I will be interested. It would be nice to be able to feed my animals safely from nice, convenient bags and cans. But it kills them, because we actually understand very little about nutrition. I watched my own three cats die of "scientifically formulated" food before I jumped off the bandwagon.

Variety, folks. This should be a part of a varied diet.

This is, of course, just my opinion.

 

[spinchris]

no dirt? just sprouts?
thx

 

[MaPa26]

Ok, first let me apologize for being a bit snippy earlier. I'm sorry for that.

It was not my intention to slander any scientists. My problem with the scientifically formulated rations is that they were created as a result in the findings of "What is the least amount we can feed this animal and still keep it alive and most importantly, keep it producing eggs?" True, there are other rations out there that are a bit better.

I don't want my birds to just barely survive.

I've read those reports about dry matter and crude protein and they just drive me crazy. They say that fermenting feed is not good because it reduces proteins. No it doesn't. So what if it is wet? The birds can eat the dry pellets and then drink some water and guess what, the food is now wet. Fermenting the feed is highly beneficial as it is somewhat predigested and this makes it easier for the chickens to digest and because of that, they get more of the nutrients out of it. I never said that any scientist ever stated that water is bad for chickens. I was speaking only in regard to the bird eating a dry pellet and then taking a drink of water, essentially reducing the protein of the pellet because of the weight change etc., etc., etc. Ugh.

Anyway, this thread is about growing fodder. There have been wild jungle fowl that have never eaten a single commercial pellet and they are super healthy. They can reproduce and their chicks can survive. I do not advise anyone just quitting the commercial rations unless they have some particularly lush surroundings loaded with insects, amphibians and small rodents. I live in a barren desert with stray dogs, coyotes, hawks and reportedly, mountain lions too. So, my birds are penned and what they get to eat is what I bring to them. I'm willing to work hard for the healthy benefit of my flock. All of their feed (pellets and whole grains) is fermented, except for the alfalfa they get. I try to grow fodder but haven't been extremely successful at that. I am pretty good at growing sprouts though so they get sprouts mixed into their fermented feed almost every evening.

I wish I could devote more time and energy into providing my girls with a more varied diet, like they had before winter. I am serious when I ask, "I know I can provide a lot of greens, but HOW can I supplement the other goodies that they enjoyed before winter hit?" They chased and ate everything that moved! They gorged on insects, baby frogs and toads (I love those little critters and it was difficult to see them eaten with such zest. They fought over them) I saved several skinks over the summer, but they always got a nice big skink tail and I am sure many little skinks became food for them. My fenced in yard was virtually grasshopper free while OUTSIDE of the fence, the yard was FULL of them. I doubt if there is a commercial feed on the market that can duplicate those delicacies. What could I give them besides BOSS and meal worms? My energy level isn't high. I am doing good to feed my family and take care of the animals that we have. Greens aren't the problem. It's the protein factor. I will be SO happy when Spring arrives..They continue to get a warm mash with yogurt, but while it is cold, if they don't eat it all, it freezes. So I do keep dry pellets available and a flock block. They are fed in the morning and in the evening. They get the yogurt meal in the morning.

One more thing--I worry more about the chickens that are overfed. That is probably worse for their health than having to go without the bounties of summer. At least they need extra calories in the winter---although they need to be nutritious calories. I let mine have a little suet cake to snack on, thinking I would have to watch them and pick it back up so they don't eat too much. But they seem to know how much they need. They get a few bites and then go back to foraging.

 

[Miss Lydia]

Does anyone use burlap to grow there fodder on? I remember someone posting about using burlap bags their bulk rice came in. the trays I'm using the holes are too small and draining isn't working and I have some growing trays I am going to try but thought it might work out to put the burlap down on top then spread out the seeds.Does your seeds get stuck in the larger holes and make draining hard? I know when I first started FF I used a bucket with holes placed down into a bucket with out and the holes would get clogged up so I went to no holes and no draining.

 

[SavageDestiny]

Feeding humans a complete diet of greens, protein, fruits and other vitamins and minerals is the same only if you are doing same for homemade diet for your flock. Just giving fodder and calling it a day and saying that is a complete diet is erroneous. Of course you can feed animals a diet of homemade food if put effort into it. That's not the question here. The question is, " does fodder replace commercial feed or is it simply a nice supplement." "Does time and expense actually add any value to diet" .

The comparison someone made to wild jungle fowl does not apply to feeding only fodder since wild fowl have a rich environment off foraging options as she pointed out. If you are considering fodder it's because you either have limited free range access or weather won't allow greens to grow. Jungle fowl don't survive snowy winters with no food. They are wild in warmer climates that permits foraging. Commercial poultry operations squeeze every dollar of profit they can, their trade group would surely fund a study if they thought they could reduce feed costs and increase profit.


To the person slandering scientists for pink slime etc, remember your chicken vaccines, wormers, and antibiotics came from same people. Science has improved quality of life for people and animals. Feel free to rely on homeopathic everything if that's your thing.


Share all the stories and information you like, I still want to see reproducible results.

I don't think anyone is considering just feeding fodder only and nothing else. I'm not, at least. But fodder can be the base for a completely home made diet with no commercial feed involved. For instance, my chickens will be in my small back yard- not a lot of forage options. So I'll feed them fodder as the base, but also make my own seed/grain mix and ferment it. Plus fresh vegetables and fruits, herbs, bugs I will farm, and raw meats and organs. No need for commercial feed at all. Not everyone is looking to cut back on feed costs, some of us just want to feed our animals fresh, healthy, natural diets. I personally believe that animals fed raw, whole foods are healthier in the long and short term than animals fed kibble/pellets. And especially if I am in turn eating meat or eggs produced from said animals, I want them to be eating as naturally and healthily as possible!

Commercial poultry operations will never use fodder. Even if the cost of feeding it was cheaper, they then have to pay someone to make sure it is watered and growing properly, pay someone to take it out of trays and hand it out to the birds, and pay someone to soak/rinse and start new batches. Commercial feed can be completely fed by automated machines and just needs to be refilled in the storage area occasionally. As you said, commercial operations are all about the $$$... and paying someone to feed chickens costs money.

 

[Amiga]

no dirt? just sprouts?
thx

yup, just soak the seeds overnight, drain them, rinse three times a day.

 

[Wednesday]

I don't think anyone is considering just feeding fodder only and nothing else. I'm not, at least. But fodder can be the base for a completely home made diet with no commercial feed involved. For instance, my chickens will be in my small back yard- not a lot of forage options. So I'll feed them fodder as the base, but also make my own seed/grain mix and ferment it. Plus fresh vegetables and fruits, herbs, bugs I will farm, and raw meats and organs. No need for commercial feed at all. Not everyone is looking to cut back on feed costs, some of us just want to feed our animals fresh, healthy, natural diets. I personally believe that animals fed raw, whole foods are healthier in the long and short term than animals fed kibble/pellets. And especially if I am in turn eating meat or eggs produced from said animals, I want them to be eating as naturally and healthily as possible!

Commercial poultry operations will never use fodder. Even if the cost of feeding it was cheaper, they then have to pay someone to make sure it is watered and growing properly, pay someone to take it out of trays and hand it out to the birds, and pay someone to soak/rinse and start new batches. Commercial feed can be completely fed by automated machines and just needs to be refilled in the storage area occasionally. As you said, commercial operations are all about the $$$... and paying someone to feed chickens costs money.

There have been people on this thread advocating
fodder as a total commercial feed replacement. One
poster said a friend killed his flock by starving them to
death on fodder only. I think the original poster from Idaho
and people like yourself that want to make it part of a
balanced diet have the right idea. Total commercial food
Replacement is the goal of my friend based on what
he read online. Hence my alarm. I make almost all the food
at my house from scratch and have healthy children. I buy
my feed from the local mill and supplement with greens
and black soldier fly larvae. I'm not trying to bash fodder.
Just wanted to keep dialogue fair balanced. I can to read
it because I'm very interested in greens for my birds. do I think miracles
happen to grain in only 6-8 days, personally, no. Do I think it can supply
some greens and water and be more digestible? You bet! I just don't
want people to think they have discovered something that
sounds to good to be true by some of the claims I have read.

 

[SavageDestiny]

There have been people on this thread advocating
fodder as a total commercial feed replacement. One
poster said a friend killed his flock by starving them to
death on fodder only. I think the original poster from Idaho
and people like yourself that want to make it part of a
balanced diet have the right idea. Total commercial food
Replacement is the goal of my friend based on what
he read online. Hence my alarm. I make almost all the food
at my house from scratch and have healthy children. I buy
my feed from the local mill and supplement with greens
and black soldier fly larvae. I'm not trying to bash fodder.
Just wanted to keep dialogue fair balanced. I can to read
it because I'm very interested in greens for my birds. do I think miracles
happen to grain in only 6-8 days, personally, no. Do I think it can supply
some greens and water and be more digestible? You bet! I just don't
want people to think they have discovered something that
sounds to good to be true by some of the claims I have read.

Well, you'll find misguided people in all walks of animal feeding. One of the biggest hurdles the raw feeding movement faces with dogs is people feeding things like hamburger, carrots, and green beans and calling it a raw diet. Nobody should be feeding strictly fodder either, but it's a great base for a home made diet. I would encourage your friend to read up on more balanced home made diets for his flock, since it is possible to not feed any commercial food. It will require more work, though, and probably more money. But if that's something he is interested in, there are plenty of options!