Gun Owners and Non-Gun Owners should come to a Meeting of the Minds

[Davaroo]

Quote:
Oh, piffle on that "allowed to stand outside..." stuff - GO ahead and come on with your bullhorn.
You're confusing rights with social mores.

Interesting distinction. So are you saying there aren't laws in your community that would prevent me from practicing my free speech rights in this case?

Not at all. I'm just not as big on 'em as some folks are. The last thing I need is some municipal rules to get to the bottom of most things.
Property delineations or potentially threatening open burning- sure bring on the law books. Some yo-yo spouting off on my lawn? No need.
Like I said, everything in my yard sorts itself out, sooner or later.

See, I keep this sort of thing simple. It's kinda like the Bible - we get way too caught up in interpreting it, or puffing ourselves up with our opinions. All we really have to do is read the dang thing, get the message and then go do something productive.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution says:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

While the First Amendment has been upheld in local jurisdictions, it does not infer the right of the individual to lumber up on another person's private property and filibuster at 2 AM through a loudspeaker. I'm sure the folks in Congress would agree with me.

Same with the 2nd Amendment - 'aint that hard to figure out. Even if you only hit it 80% right, you pretty much got it. To borrow a phrase from Willy Wonka,
Sorry folks, the show is over, go on home now, nothing left here to see..., etc.

We get far too caught up in the endless cycle of making our points, to see what is going on behind our backs, with our so-called leaders. We need to understand our duty as citizens... if we all did, this would be one thread that would be moot. That we don't, says that someone else is winning after all.

 

[scbatz33]

Quote:

Which is EXACTLY why if our rights to keep and bear arms are taken away, then the criminals will become BOLDER and we won't be able to do diddly-squat.

If that happens, I will resort to my bow and arrows. Come to think of it, that might be a better option anyway. I am very accurate with it, it's a lot quieter (won't wake the kids or neighbors) and the intruder will probably live long enough to bleed out somewhere besides my living room.

It the government takes my bow, I guess I will have to sneak up behind them with the ashtray. Oops, I don't own one. Pantyhose will have to do...my wife's, before anybody gets any ideas!

UGCM

Seeing how cigarette smoking has been attacked vehemently for years by our government, i doubt seriously there will be many ashtrays left in a very short time. Better stock up now before it's as hard to find as the ammo!!

Along that line of thought, what will they change the weapons in Clue to? If you can't use a gun or an ashtray??? What are they? A pipe, candlestick, rope, gun, knife....seems to me most of these are on the way to being out-lawed as we discuss. Guess Milton-Bradley better do some revisions.

 

[scbatz33]

Ok, so I have to go to bed and I'm only on page 26 of reading all the posts, so two thoughts....

first, congrats on everyone being civil and this thing staying open for 50+ pages!

Second - this topic is no different than any other "problem" the US government "leaders" attempt to "fix". They can't see the forest for the trees and are, in typical politics as usual fashion, closing the barn door after the horses are out.

I drive a big truck and we have seen this "band-aid" legislation for a number of years now. In my industry (one of the most heavily regulated in the country), the "do gooders" are constantly trying to pass new laws to "make the roadways safer". They keep having committees and hearing and writing bills that tighten the laws more and more each time.

The basic problem with this constant law creating is the more laws put in place, the more people have to break the law. The DOT has for years had laws regulating a 14 hour work day and an 11 hour drive day. But, they never really enforced the laws. Some drivers would run circles around the laws, use multiple log books, run scales, etc to be able to run illegally. So the geniuses in Washington, backed by a bunch of "tree hugger" types who think big trucks are evil and all truck drivers are like the actors in "Convoy" decided to make new laws changing how breaks were logged, how much drive time is allowed and tightening the parameter of the actual work day.

The problem with the new laws is they are so much more constrictive, that the drivers who were abiding the laws to begin with now have to "creatively log" in order to make the same money they were before. Companies have had to hire more drivers to cover the shortened time frame and still move freight in the expedited manner that their customers and the consumers demand. Thus many companies have lost contracts and have gone under because of the increased cost of payroll and equipment.

Many companies had to hire more "student" and inexperienced drivers to combat the restrictions. Thus putting more drivers on the road who are at a higher risk for accidents. Which in turn raises insurance costs and claims. Further, with the increase of accidents, those tree huggers had more ammo(no pun intended) to demand further hours restrictions. Which were granted. Thus MORE drivers are having to break the law and more companies are being squeezed financially.........

See, it's an endless viscous cycle and no one wins when the folks inside the beltway try to "fix" things. And, the simple truth is, those few drivers who were breaking the law to begin with ARE STILL breaking the law. Why on earth those idiots in congress can't grasp the concept that folks who break the law are gonna break the law whether there are 10 laws, 100 laws or 1 million laws, is totally beyond me.

If a person is a speeder when the speed limit is 45, do they honestly believe that making the speed limit 35 is gonna stop the speeding????? No, the speeder is still gonna speed.

Likewise, the gang member, thief, rapist, murderer is still gonna gang bang, steal, rape, murder.......they didn't care what the law was before, they sure as heck don't care what it is now. You CAN NOT legislate morality. You can not pass a law that will make people do the right thing if they aren't inclined to do it to begin with. All these laws do is restrict those of us who already abide by the law. The criminals couldn't care less and they most certainly won't stop being criminals.

And a side note on guns, specifically. I was raised in a "no gun" household. I resisted having guns for a long while - esp while the kids were smaller. However, my DH has acquired a couple of hand guns and a pellet rifle in the past year. I, to my surprise, have not had an issue with them being in the house. I always thought I would...dont' know why, maybe because of the kids.....

My first husband was in the navy and had a couple of guns, two rifles, a shot gun and a hand gun of some sort. I must admit back when we were first married I was glad for the guns in the house. We lived in a bad apartment complex - crime wise - and I was home alone often. I had no idea how to load or fire any of the guns, But the one had a bayonet on the end and the double barrel shot gun made one REALLY scary noise when you slid the barrel thingie (yes, that's the technical term). I don't think I would have actually needed to fire it, that noise was enough to scare the bejeezus out of anyone thinking about coming in uninvited!!

 

[Davaroo]

Quote:
Ultimately, laws can only restrict. They are reactionary in nature and are designed to prevent some sort of behavior from occurring, again.
That we keep begging for more of them, says something about us. Be it cigarettes, guns or cars, our modern lament is,"Make us safe - pass a law..."
Where will that take us, in the end?

This is much bigger than gun laws - they are just the tip 'o the iceberg.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I used to be licensed dealer and gun repairman. Needless to say, I have an extensive collection of firearms. One day, not long after Lori and I were married, I was inventorying them and looking them over. I had pulled them from all sorts of "non-traditional" hiding places in the house.

"Where did all these guns come from??!! Lori shrieked.
"Oh here and there... around the house. I've had these ones for years..."
"These ones?? You mean there's more?"
"Oh yes. And dad has a couple of mine, too."

See, Lori was also raised in a non-gun environment. She was led to believe that guns are bad, because bad people do bad things with them.

"Well... what are they gonna do?"
"Nothing. I'll clean them and put them back. Did you know they were here, before today?"
"No."
"Have any of them ever shot anyone on their own?"
"No." She was getting my point.
"What do you think they'll do in the future."
"Probably nothing."
"Right. And they wont be stolen, either, because they cant be found unless the house burns down."
"I guess you have a point..."

Sweeter words have yet been spoken by a wife.

 

[greathorse]

huh uhuhuh emm (clears throat). I have been watching this thread grow for some time and was committed to keeping my less than small (figurative) mouth shut, but no such luck.

I am a gun owner (shotgun and .22). I do support everyone's right to own a gun and dont think that right should be taken away. Although I own a couple of guns I would have to say I am far from a gun enthusiast. I just have them because from time to time I have a need.

I will say that I think that many gun owner's (avid enthusiasts) hurt their cause by spending a lot of time and verbal energy talking about, bragging about or in general espousing their Profiency with said weapon, or the size of the darn thing (think about that) or the number of them they have in possession, or the most frustrating is when concealed carry folks find it necessary to let us know that they in fact are "packing"!!

Buy a gun, own a gun, good for you. I dont care how big it is how many you have and for Christ sake not at all interested in that "ankle holster". Don't need or want to know how big hole it will make in a would be intruder. If you, we have them for self protection I would assume it to be of a caliber necessary to do the job so to speak.

I know not nearly all gun owners behave in the manner I describe, but I certainly could take you to a fair number of neighbors, acquiantances and yes even friends that head down the conversational path of "how big is your gun"? at the drop of a hat.

I don't beleive in a bunch of regulation either, I just dont see why they are such an important focus in so many poeples lives. It is just a gun after all.

OK done for now.

 

[Heelers&Chickens_OhMy]

54 pages!?! What a thread!!

I have to say, after days of debating, reading, and talking further with my amazing DBF, I now, more than ever, think that our rights to own guns as citizens needs to be upheld. I am still nervous about automatic weapons, but maybe some one can convince me those are ok to make available too

Why has my thinking come around? Some one (horsejody....or Chicks n Horses? ...some one...) mentioned something to the effect of "we may be safe now, but what about our kids, grandkids, great grand kids....)"

She (or he) is right. It is next to impossible to get rights back once we give them up. By giving up a right to own firearms, we are giving up the only way we have to defend ourselves from the gov't now, or the gov't of the future. Apparently, all you need in other countries to start a revolution (or a rioting dissenting group) is a charismatic leader, some sheeple and weapons. We have just as much a right as they do to overthrow a tyrant. At this moment, I don't see our president as a tyrant, but we don't know if that will change in years to come. We certainly don't know how our children will act...but I will compare this to environmental damage:

Perhaps you don't care, today, if we're using up water in the Ogalala Aquifer hundreds of times faster than it can regenerate. This aquifer supplies over 50% of the water to our fertile mid-western states (9 of them to be exact) where we grow a LOT of corn that feeds our cows, chickens and pigs that we like to eat so much. Perhaps you don't care that this water will be gone in 30 years at the rate we're using - but know that by using water the way we currently are, in 30 years, when your kids are feeding their families, the price of food will skyrocket (meat especially) and hundreds of thousands of people will not be able to water their families in the midwest.

My point is, the 'oh, but we're fine now' simply isn't good enough for me. With gun control, we don't know what the future will bring, but once gun rights are gone, they're gone. Everytime I've seen a right get taken away, I've rarely seen it given back.

 

[Eggs4Sale]

Quote:
I don't get the beef you have. When people get together to discuss horse trailers, don't they eventually discuss the horse. We're on a CHICKEN WEBSITE, for crying out loud, and you read how many pages to determine that people started out talking gun control and eventually turned to talking about their guns. WHY??? I don't get that, but I get why people are talking about their guns. What I don't get is why they aren't talking about their holsters, reloading equipment, and shooting ranges. Oh, wait, we're talking horse trailers...

BTW, I only actually have known two "gun enthusiasts". Neither one would do as you described. But they're not speaking anonymously on a CHICKEN WEBSITE.

 

[gypsy2621]

Heelers&Chickens_OhMy :

54 pages!?! What a thread!!

I have to say, after days of debating, reading, and talking further with my amazing DBF, I now, more than ever, think that our rights to own guns as citizens needs to be upheld. I am still nervous about automatic weapons, but maybe some one can convince me those are ok to make available too

Why has my thinking come around? Some one (horsejody....or Chicks n Horses? ...some one...) mentioned something to the effect of "we may be safe now, but what about our kids, grandkids, great grand kids....)"

She (or he) is right. It is next to impossible to get rights back once we give them up. By giving up a right to own firearms, we are giving up the only way we have to defend ourselves from the gov't now, or the gov't of the future. Apparently, all you need in other countries to start a revolution (or a rioting dissenting group) is a charismatic leader, some sheeple and weapons. We have just as much a right as they do to overthrow a tyrant. At this moment, I don't see our president as a tyrant, but we don't know if that will change in years to come. We certainly don't know how our children will act...but I will compare this to environmental damage:

Perhaps you don't care, today, if we're using up water in the Ogalala Aquifer hundreds of times faster than it can regenerate. This aquifer supplies over 50% of the water to our fertile mid-western states (9 of them to be exact) where we grow a LOT of corn that feeds our cows, chickens and pigs that we like to eat so much. Perhaps you don't care that this water will be gone in 30 years at the rate we're using - but know that by using water the way we currently are, in 30 years, when your kids are feeding their families, the price of food will skyrocket (meat especially) and hundreds of thousands of people will not be able to water their families in the midwest.

My point is, the 'oh, but we're fine now' simply isn't good enough for me. With gun control, we don't know what the future will bring, but once gun rights are gone, they're gone. Everytime I've seen a right get taken away, I've rarely seen it given back.

I for one would never try to convince a person that something they are nervous over or afraid of to purchase something like that.
You must decide or figure out which fire arm You are comfortable with.
If you are afraid of a semi or fully automatic weapon then it isnt the one for you.
I have issue with 9mm not because they are semi automatic but because I have tendon damage in my thumb that keeps it permently frozen in a position that when the bolt sides back it snaps the thumb back. that is painfull to me and I avoid such weapons.
Everyone has their favorites but the best they can tell anyone is, "This is my choice, but may not be the right one for You".
To find the fireaarm you are comfortable with you will have to test fire many different ones. Good luck finding the perfect fire arm is a wonderfull experience.
ETA: I just re read the quote and now feel totally stupid, I read something that wasnt there , my bad.
semi automatic and Fully automatic fire arms do have their place, I for one wont try to convince you they are right or wrong to own , but as mentioned they do have their place and I have no problems with anyone owning one or more.​

 

[Eggs4Sale]

Quote:
Ultimately, laws can only restrict. They are reactionary in nature and are designed to prevent some sort of behavior from occurring, again.
That we keep begging for more of them, says something about us. Be it cigarettes, guns or cars, our modern lament is,"Make us safe - pass a law..."
Where will that take us, in the end?

This is much bigger than gun laws - they are just the tip 'o the iceberg.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I used to be licensed dealer and gun repairman. Needless to say, I have an extensive collection of firearms. One day, not long after Lori and I were married, I was inventorying them and looking them over. I had pulled them from all sorts of "non-traditional" hiding places in the house.

"Where did all these guns come from??!! Lori shrieked.
"Oh here and there... around the house. I've had these ones for years..."
"These ones?? You mean there's more?"
"Oh yes. And dad has a couple of mine, too."

See, Lori was also raised in a non-gun environment. She was led to believe that guns are bad, because bad people do bad things with them.

"Well... what are they gonna do?"
"Nothing. I'll clean them and put them back. Did you know they were here, before today?"
"No."
"Have any of them ever shot anyone on their own?"
"No." She was getting my point.
"What do you think they'll do in the future."
"Probably nothing."
"Right. And they wont be stolen, either, because they cant be found unless the house burns down."
"I guess you have a point..."

Sweeter words have yet been spoken by a wife.

Davaroo, I am in need of the particulars as to your hiding spots. I talked DH into spreading them around, but he's talking wall destruction. If you don't want to post on here your spots, or suggested spots, please PM me. I don't want to have to Rockford Files mine.

 

[jafo]

I know I said I was done, but for the sake of "owners and non owners" of guns, here's a little article that should help clear it up. It's about freedom, personal freedom, and soveriegnty. It's about why we do, or why we don't.

http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin526.htm

you can subscribe toNWV by going to WorldNetDaily.com It's news you won't see on abc cbs cnn. It's truth.