Handgun Question

[EMAW]

Quote:
Then buy an air horn instead of a gun

You won't hurt anyone with that

First off sorry about your coyote issues, they are a huge problem almost everywhere now.

If you are not ready and willing to kill something every time you pull the trigger of a firearm you should not point the gun at anything (man or beast). As stated before you cannot recall a bullet, and a wounded animal is way more dangerous.

Buy an air horn if a loud noise is all you want, that will work as well as a "warning shot" and will be much safer.

Please do some serious research and soul searching, if you are not prepared to kill something when you shoot you should not shoot IMHO.

If you do decide on a firearm, please make your #1 priority a firearm safety course. I can recommend the Remington 870 (20 gauge), I own one in 12 and one in 20 gauge and they have never failed me. Load it with #4 and a full choke and you will kill any coyote out there at 30yds.

 

[S.E.A. Farmer]

But seriously, take a safety course at a gun range, and go from there.

 

[Tinstarmule]

Boxers or Briefs? Everyone likes something different. However I would say shotgun in this case. I have been raised around firearms and been in law enforcement for 22 years. We had a coyote problem where a pack ate my sheep and took one of my dogs. And unless you are going to actively call them in and hunt them they are tricky to just catch in the act. This pack drove me crazy after all I do have to sleep and work so sitting and waiting all night was not an option. With your gun you have to remember, is it dark? Will you be able to see your target? 15 yards is a long shot for a beginner and hand gun. Rifles send a bullet a long ways. So what's the back drop? Not always will the coyote be in the "right" spot. Shotgun with buck allows a "spray and pray" approach. Where if your aim is close one of the pellets may hit them as the pattern of the pellets gets bigger with distance. And the speed and distance will dissipate with the shot not going as far as a rifle round. If a 12g has too much kick you can get smaller gauge (bigger #) which will still send a coyote on his way. But one of those stray pellets can send chickens to heaven too.

Lots of things to think about. Good luck

 

[NYboy]

Thank you everyone, I think for now a airhorn. I will be looking in to taking some class, then will be back with more questions. happy and safe New Year

 

[KatieBugg]

Quote:
You do not discharge a firearm to simply make a noise and never count on the noise as being a deterrent you may just discover that the animal you are trying to scare isn't going to play the game.

You can not recall that bullet once it leaves the gun.

I would not advise a warning shot!! It could cost you your life. 15 years ago I had a coyote come at me in broad daylight, I always carry a 45 holstered on me, I almost did not have time to get a second shot off befor ethe animal was on me, he was rabbid and the sound of the shot really set him off!!

 

[CoupDePoop]

NY Boy,

I am late to this post, and it looks like you have already arrived at the best conclusion - without question. Congrats on your good sense!!

That said, I feel the need to chime in only b/c I was a bit taken aback at some of the recommendations that you got, and I feel obligated to to provide some additional color for you to consider.

First off - I need to say that while I am fairly new to chickens - I am not new to firearms. I am a Certified NRA Rifle instructor, and I have shot competitively on and off for years. In addition, I used to be a pistol instructor, have worked as a Range Officer on two different ranges in my community - and have been handling firearms of all varieties since I was a kid (I am now in my late forties... I don't want to do the math.)

First Observation: New York has some of the toughest Firearms laws in the nation. Before you do anything, check with your local sheriffs department to see what your State, County, and City ordinances are. Also - if you live within X yards of a school, a hospital, or a state/federal facility, there may be different restrictions to your residence - specifically. (Varies by municipality and state.)

Next Item: If the firearm was for home defense rather than animal predator, I would generally agree with the folks who recommended a shotgun. HOWEVER, a shotgun (unless you are shooting slugs) is going to blow a REALLY BIG hole (of ever increasing size, as distance increases) in anything in the downrange vicinity of your target. If your dog, your cat, your chickens - OR YOUR KID - is in the teeth of the varmint, you're gonna shoot the victim as well as the perpetrator. Not a good solution. It's only a good solution if the target is standing in your doorway pointing a gun at you. It's a last resort defense against the worst of the worst bad guys - or the tool of a lazy hunter who never learned to aim. That's my opinion. Others will disagree.

Next Item: Some well-meaning folks recommended a revolver. I have handled just about every make of hand gun there is. I am a reasonably skilled shooter - even under pressure - even with the adrenaline pumping. To put it bluntly, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a revolver. It's the tool of "Cowboy Action" shooters, or people who have never fired a well-made semi-auto. They are safer - if only b/c the trigger pull is (from the factory on most models) about 6 lbs which is enough to cause an inexperienced shooter to "pull" well off target. (Meaning you are gonna hit something other than the coyote, and if you miss wide - you may hit the six year old kid three block away playing in his yard.)

Back in the day, people had no other choice but a revolver. Just like people had no other choice than a straight shift car. Today - you would not teach your kid how to drive his first automobile using a straight shift. And a first gun for any new shooter is NOT a revolver.

Next Item: Unless you are willing to shoot to kill and do it without a second's hesitation, you have no business with a gun in your hand - or in your home. And - if you have a gun in your home - EVERY member of your family needs to be familiar with its operation, what it feels like when shot (not just dry trigger pull), as well as what it looks like when a living creature is shot with one. Specifically - you need to see what a poorly placed shot will do to an animal - and you need to practice, practice, practice - until the tool is an extension of yourself to such a degree that poorly placed shot is a very remote possibility.

My recommendation... if you have Coyotes; baited traps and relocation. The wildlife department can help you with that - especially if you can demonstrate that they have taken pets or livestock.

One thing that I have found helps too (particularly if you are a carnivore - doesn't work as well with vegetarians) is urinate on the perimeter points of the property. Coyotes (and other predators) are territorial creatures and they are (generally) afraid of humans and other carnivores. If you "mark" your turf the animal will understand it. If you see him - become aggressive and growl and bark, kick the dirt, and run toward him flailing. He'll get the point. You'll be speaking his language, and you are bigger - he'll take the warning.

The air horn will help too.

Hope this helps a bit.

--Grace.

 

[erthymom2]

IMHO anyone who plans on having a rifle, shotgun or handgun for predator and/or home protection please make sure you take the training and safety courses available. It is very hard, if not impossible for a novice shooter to hit a fleeting or stationary target with a handgun. I have handled differant guns and have a healthy respect for the weapon and what it can & does do. Make a call to your local outdoors store and they can probably get you in touch with the gun clubs in the area for training. People can give you advice and tell you of their experiances with tresspassing vermin and coyotes, but knowing your gun and how to use it safetly and wisely will save lots of problems for you later.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Point #1: Not if you pull the hammer back - then it's a very light trigger pull. And if you think a semiauto is more accurate then a revolver, then every single shot I fired at the range a few days ago were total flukes.

Steel plate targets at, I'd guesstimate, 7 or 8 yards away. 9mm semiauto hit from 3 to 6 plates for every 10 round magazine. .357 Magnum, 6 inch barrel, loaded with .38 Special rounds? Consistently nailed 5 out of every 6 shots. My dad, who has only fired a revolver once before, landed 6 out of 6 shots. Both of us were almost totally new to handguns. My take - go with a revolver with a 6-inch barrel if you MUST have a handgun for coyotes. .38 Special rounds have about the same kick and a little more punch than a 9mm. The value in a semiauto handgun, to me, seems to be the ability to "spray," whereas a revolver requires you to make sure the first shot goes where you want it to.

Point #2: It all depends on the range with a shotgun. 00 buck actually lands very tight patterns out to at least 10 yards. If I may add a slightly silly side benefit, shotguns are on the heavy side, and would probably make a good emergency club.

Point #3: Relocate? That seems like catching your problem and handing it to someone else, IMHO. Relocate 'em to Heaven.

 

[CoupDePoop]

Quote:
Q9... You and I will have to respectfully disagree on this topic. That said, I'd like to clarify where I am coming from on the Revolver accuracy issue, as well as your other points.

Revolver vs. Semi: You may be able to faithfully strike a ten or twelve inch steel plate from 7 or 8 yards away. Under ideal conditions. When not under stress. When you are clear headed and remembering to put the firearm into single action (pulling hammer back on first shot sent down range.) A ten inch target is - from my point of view - the "Broad Side of a Barn".

Replace that ten inch steel plate (which when struck resounds with a very satisfying "ding!") with a fast moving, small animal like a coyote - and your effective sweet spot reduces to just about two inches. Outside that sweet spot you have either maimed the animal, or placed a lethal projectile moving at XXXX feet per second, God Only Knows Where.

I know many competitive shooters who can group 10 rounds inside 1 inch at 50 feet with a revolver. Acquiring this skill took them thousands of hours of practice.

On the flip side, I have trained many novice shooters to group 2 inches at 50 feet with a semi-auto. I have never been able to get a novice to that kind of accuracy with a revolver.

In a self defense situation, this difference between hitting your "sweet spot" and missing by 3 inches is crucial to surviving an assault.

Now, as for "spraying" bullets, which you suggested was the only value you see in a semi-auto - I do not know any responsible gun owner who would advocate such a thing. This concept violates every single rule of gun safety I can think of.

Shotgun: Yeah. Buck shot will group a fairly tight pattern at close range. It will also blow a fairly big hole straight through walls. It will shatter brick, bone, and drywall like exploding a small stick of dynamite. It's a very blunt instrument. Shotguns are great for intimidating intruders, blowing down doors, clearing rooms, and plucking flocks of birds from the sky. That's about it.

"Relocate 'em to Heaven": Again. You and I just completely disagree on this point. I will only suggest that while it sounds very macho to advocate killing an animal, it's also unnecessary and arrogant. I will never understand the rational that allows people to think they have a right to take a life as a first resort, rather than taking preventative measures. It's positively Medieval thinking.

I'll say it again. It is my belief that every person who acquires a firearm, should be required to see first-hand the results of a poorly placed shot. If - after seeing the effect - you are not moved to either put the gun down and walk away forever - OR - prompted to practice, practice, practice to the degree that your skill is such that missing is highly unlikely - then there is something seriously "missing" in your character.

The problem with guns is that they make people feel powerful. It's a dangerous illusion. Real power is having the wisdom and experience to know that using a gun is an absolute last resort, not taken lightly, and not undertaken without considerable training.

 

[woodmort]

Quote:
The OP wanted to get a handgun because he was concerned about coyote attacks. To arm himself with this kind of weapon may give him a feeling that he is protected when, in fact, if he were to face a determined coyote while holding one he's be in a lot of trouble. If he were armed with a scattergun with some fairly large buckshot his chances of inflicting enough damage to the critter would be such that an attack would be thwarted. It is for that reason I'd suggest a shotgun.

BTW, unless one lives in the confines of NYC, buying a long gun in NYS isn't that much of a problem especially if one has a hunting license (which requires passing a hunter/training course). A handgun on the other hand requires a permit issued by the local county sheriff.