Handgun Question

[wood&feathers]

Lots of good advice thus far, particularly the superiority of long guns for rural all around use. I don't think the OP really needs a pistol, but if they do wish to go that route I recommend visiting a gun club or indoor range with a variety of rental firearms. Maybe even take some classes for a while before purchasing. Revolver vs semiauto is really all about the individual shooter. For years I carried a S & W .357 (usually with .38 loaded - very heavy gun with that load is easy to shoot for a little gal) because that particular gun had a really sweet trigger job from a police armorer. Then a friend with a tricked out IPSIC .45 let me shoot his at the range and I realized there were autos I might enjoy shooting. When I chose to shop for one, I drove a couple hours to a range and shot Glocks, Kahrs, Sig-Sauers etc. Took two trips to figure out I liked the single action Kahr 9. Autoloaders can be finicky about bullets, cost more, and are more difficult to clean for a novice. But they usually have better sights and higher overall quality than most new revolvers right now. We could go on forever about the pros and cons of each, but the upshot is you really need some firsthand experiences to make a sound purchase decision on handguns.

Traps are great. They are on duty when you or your dog aren't. But relocating is indeed just passing the buck. I can't imagine a shooting household without a .22 rifle of some description. Trap + .22 short or subsonic rounds = dead varmint.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Q9... You and I will have to respectfully disagree on this topic. That said, I'd like to clarify where I am coming from on the Revolver accuracy issue, as well as your other points.

Revolver vs. Semi: You may be able to faithfully strike a ten or twelve inch steel plate from 7 or 8 yards away. Under ideal conditions. When not under stress. When you are clear headed and remembering to put the firearm into single action (pulling hammer back on first shot sent down range.) A ten inch target is - from my point of view - the "Broad Side of a Barn".

Replace that ten inch steel plate (which when struck resounds with a very satisfying "ding!") with a fast moving, small animal like a coyote - and your effective sweet spot reduces to just about two inches. Outside that sweet spot you have either maimed the animal, or placed a lethal projectile moving at XXXX feet per second, God Only Knows Where.

I know many competitive shooters who can group 10 rounds inside 1 inch at 50 feet with a revolver. Acquiring this skill took them thousands of hours of practice.

On the flip side, I have trained many novice shooters to group 2 inches at 50 feet with a semi-auto. I have never been able to get a novice to that kind of accuracy with a revolver.

In a self defense situation, this difference between hitting your "sweet spot" and missing by 3 inches is crucial to surviving an assault.

Now, as for "spraying" bullets, which you suggested was the only value you see in a semi-auto - I do not know any responsible gun owner who would advocate such a thing. This concept violates every single rule of gun safety I can think of.

Shotgun: Yeah. Buck shot will group a fairly tight pattern at close range. It will also blow a fairly big hole straight through walls. It will shatter brick, bone, and drywall like exploding a small stick of dynamite. It's a very blunt instrument. Shotguns are great for intimidating intruders, blowing down doors, clearing rooms, and plucking flocks of birds from the sky. That's about it.

"Relocate 'em to Heaven": Again. You and I just completely disagree on this point. I will only suggest that while it sounds very macho to advocate killing an animal, it's also unnecessary and arrogant. I will never understand the rational that allows people to think they have a right to take a life as a first resort, rather than taking preventative measures. It's positively Medieval thinking.

I'll say it again. It is my belief that every person who acquires a firearm, should be required to see first-hand the results of a poorly placed shot. If - after seeing the effect - you are not moved to either put the gun down and walk away forever - OR - prompted to practice, practice, practice to the degree that your skill is such that missing is highly unlikely - then there is something seriously "missing" in your character.

The problem with guns is that they make people feel powerful. It's a dangerous illusion. Real power is having the wisdom and experience to know that using a gun is an absolute last resort, not taken lightly, and not undertaken without considerable training.

#1: My turn to clarify - "spraying" was probably a poor choice of words. What I basically meant is, the only value when used against coyotes that I can think over a 6-inch revolver is the ability to quickly compensate for any missed shots. I would NEVER advocate spraying, even with weapons DESIGNED for it (AK-47 and the like). I guess it boils down to a matter of preference and experience. If you're an experienced shooter, I'd guess that a .45 semiauto would almost definitely be better than a .357 revolver. But for a novice, there is ALWAYS the possibility of improperly handling the gun and causing it to stovepipe or misfeed. Revolvers have no such issues, but you are right that it might be difficult to remember to draw back the hammer.

#2: So what do you propose using? A handgun is problematic against coyotes no matter what, a shotgun is too powerful and the spray is too wide, and a rifle bullet travels too far, apparently. Birdshot would probably just injure a coyote, and a slug is a weird sort of compromise between a rifle and buckshot, that doesn't contain the strong points of each. I say, if it's not near anything, use buckshot, and if it's too close for comfort, give it a rifle bullet.

#3: You ignored my reason - relocation honestly strikes me as just passing your problem to someone else, who will probably shoot said problems. Raccoons are different - most folks don't have chickens, and they're small and relatively harmless unless rabid, so sure, relocate them if you wish. But coyotes, as soon as they lose their fear of people, WILL attack children, sometimes in front of adults. I say shoot them because coyotes are problem animals no matter where they're placed, unless it is in the middle of a God-forsaken wilderness avoided by humanity. I don't see how that's "medieval" thinking.

#4: Really? I, personally, find holding a firearm to be rather humbling. The power is NOT an illusion, it is a humbling reality. You suddenly realize that you are holding a device capable of easily taking a life - be it animal or human. In any decent person, holding a weapon should inspire them to train with it so that they don't cause unnecessary harm, but are capable of causing harm if necessary.

 

[CoupDePoop]

"So What do you Propose Using?"

--> Relocation - or let the Wildlife folks determine what the best solution is. It's their domain. I really dislike the idea of taking it upon myself to kill any critter. Even one that is considered to be a nuisance.

---> Now... if I HAD to shoot a coyote... My personal preference would be a .308, shot from prone position, taken from @ 100 yards. One shot. Job done. No drama. Of course this is only b/c the .308 is the firearm I am most comfortable with. It's probably overkill for such a small varmint. But when your favorite tool is a hammer - everything looks like a nail. <grin>

The last critter I actually had to shoot was a rabid raccoon that was chasing our dog around in circles on the patio. The thing was out of its mind, vicious, but disoriented, and partially paralyzed - wobbly! He took two .45's to the chest and still kept coming for about 10 seconds. Darnedest thing I ever saw. I have seen that caliber drop a 200 lb man like a sack of flour in .005 seconds. The idea that a small animal - especially one in such terrible condition already - would be able to take that kind of impact and still keep coming... it got my attention, to say the least.

There is no perfect tool. There is only trying your best to avoid being in the situation that causes you to need a tool like a gun.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Seriously? TWO .45 caliber bullets to the chest, and it still kept coming?! My gosh. Rabies has to be one of the scariest diseases in the history of the planet. Turns animals into semi-invincible zombies, complete with the unnerving wobble/limp. Still, I don't see how a .45 shot wouldn't blow the raccoon's chest open first shot.

Creepy.

Theoretically, a .22 can take down a 'yote... odds are, though, the thing will run off and die a horrible death of internal bleed or something similar. I think .223 is an absolute minimum in dealing with these things with a rifle. .308 seems reasonable, if slightly overkill.

Of course, then, I come to the MythBusters' motto - "If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing."

 

[CoupDePoop]

Quote:
Yeah. I hear you. I would have thought the same thing. I could not believe it. But I swear to God, it's a fact. There was almost no blood, so I believe the thing's heart stopped on the first shot - but that didn't stop its brain which obviously didn't register the profound impact of either bullet. That's not a disease I want to mess with. We bleached the porch (kept the dogs inside for days), and burned the thing poste haste. I still wouldn't walk barefoot outside for the rest of the summer. It creeped me out - bigtime. I'd just about rather face a Mama Bear with a butter knife. (And that's not high on my list of things I want to do either.)

 

[panner123]

Any time you see a coyote inside 50 yards, you can bet the farm it is on a dead run. Not many if any can make a kill shot on that animal with any gun, let alone a hand gun. Most of your good shots at a coyote will be between 150 and 200 yards. Far beyond any hand guns range, as well as a shot gun. That leaves a rifle of a mid cal. range, which there are many. For anyone that would like to prove me wrong, try this. Take a feed bag and fill it with sand, straw or anything you want. Tie a long rope on the bag and take it out to around 100 yards, tied to car or truck and drag it behind at only five miles per hour. Shoot at the bag and see how many times you can hit the bag. Then just shoot at the bag not moving. Bet you missed every time when moving, no matter which gun you used. Missed all again with the hand gun at the at the still target. Might have hit it with a few pellets out of the shot gun. The rifle is another story, anyone with just a little training should have hit the still target at least five times. A predator is not going to set there and wait for you, it is going to be on its way as soon as it knows you are there. If you can't make a clean kill shot, DO NOT SHOOT. As for relocating a trapped animal DO NOT. Most of the time the animal will die or be killed be another in that area. Or you will just give someone else a problem that you should have taken care of yourself. Drop an animal off around my property and the animal will be killed and if I see you do it, I WILL REPORT you to the Dept of Fish & Game. It is against the law to relocate here. Have a trapper come to your property to trap something, the first thing they will ask is if they can bury the animal on your property.

 

[swimmer]

I just got me a Ruger .380. Love it. Has a bit of a kick, but nice and small.

 

[Tenneesse]

I interpreted the OP inquiry as should I buy and use a handgun to get rid of some coyotes. My opinion is not a great idea considering the experience of the member.

If anyone subscribes to Field and Stream there is a great article in the NOV/DEC 2010 issue you may have read about dispatching Coyote. It was written and included interviews with 3 very experienced Coyote hunters and animal control experts. Its quite explicit in the requirements to adequately take care of problem Coyotes.

F/S has about 200 pages of Coyote hunting and shooting. http://www.fieldandstream.com/search/node/coyote

This is one that had taken one of my hens and it had to be dispatched

I use the hide on my garden fence to discourage deer from grazing and it worked well. The deer stay way back. I hang it on the fence a couple of time a week during the garden season so they don't gt wise. The scent of the hide is still somewhat gamy even though I cured it and the deer don't like it.

I'll cook the meat to feed back to the chickens. Provides some excellent protein.

This one was dispatched with a Winchester .30-.30 150 gr SP when I was returning from the field. He was in a slow trot and paused for a moment at about 50yds with the bird in his mouth. They are pretty accustom to the sound of the tractor and I just got lucky. The bird was ranging and that's the risk you run if you let them out in predator country. The bullet entry hole is small in front of the left shoulder and the exit is obvious and a clean kill. Keep in mind the damage is the same even if the victim is the result of a careless discharge. Don't under estimate the damage.

I posted this picture to show what the effect is if you have never experienced shooting an animal. Always pick your shot well. If this animal hadn't paused I probably would not have taken the shot. I do a lot of wing (sporting clays with a shotgun) shooting so a moving target isn't a total challenge but the experience comes from many many rounds fired at moving clay targets moving at about 60 -70 mph but this one paused and presented a clean rifle shot.

I found that having a secure run and coop so you can lock the birds up at night discourages the coyote from night prowling but when they learn they are out during the day all bets are off. A motion detector that turns on a spotlight will help keep predators at bay.... somewhat. I don't have a night time problem.

There are some really powerful "wrist rockets" sling shots that can dispatch a coyote with a properly placed ball bearing if your in a no firearms discharge community. Takes some real practice but if your determined they can do the job and noise is no issue. Im amazed at the technology. There is the latest and greatest technology in the same Field and Stream. Great for running off neighborhood cats and dogs to. You can control the power to sting or kill. They can be very very accurately shot if you set your mind to it.

 

[chickortreat]

Quote:
Not to dispute you, but practice counts for a lot. I killed a rabbit once at over 90 yards with a .357 magnum. I once killed a squirrel over fifty yards away with a Ruger Single-Six .22. Folks who never shoot can't shoot as a general rule.

The .22 magnum is my main go-to caliber for pest control. Armadillos, fox, possom, coyote (bordering too light), groundhog.......you name it, the .22 mag will deliver. $10 for a box of 50 rounds, it's easy on the pocketbook.

 

[Tenneesse]

Quote:
Not to dispute you, but practice counts for a lot. I killed a rabbit once at over 90 yards with a .357 magnum. I once killed a squirrel over fifty yards away with a Ruger Single-Six .22. Folks who never shoot can't shoot as a general rule.

The .22 magnum is my main go-to caliber for pest control. Armadillos, fox, possom, coyote (bordering too light), groundhog.......you name it, the .22 mag will deliver. $10 for a box of 50 rounds, it's easy on the pocketbook.

"Folks who never shoot can't shoot as a general rule." Well put.

The single six I think is a great one, the convertible was a my favorite when I coon hunted. The .22 mag was great for making sure they didn't remain on a limb but was too hard on the hide.