Hands on hatching and help

[WVduckchick]

Were those shipped eggs? I recently had two hatches that both had deformed chicks. The first was DIS and when I opened it I thought perhaps I had messed up opening it up and caved in one side of the beak. Flipped its head and it was identical on the other. So strange. The next hatch I had two that had completely deforemed heads caved in to the shape of the wing, eyeball must have been inside brain that's how caved in it was. Beak lengths were mismatched and crossed, one couldn't even pull its tongue in but it was chirping and they seemed normal in energy and everything. I knew even if I felt sorry fo them they would never make it since they couldn't eat or drink so that was my first time culling and I really regretted assisting them, but I guess maybe it was better that I kill them quick then have them die slowly in the shell. Anyways these were not shipped but they were of unknown age as they came from a very large clutch of hidden eggs that I found. So perhaps the age of the eggs was the cause. Everyone else hatched fine and normal. What is your theory on yours?

Not shipped. My eggs from an established, yet still young flock. A first-time broody was sitting on them, so the egg only left the nest for me to candle on 3 or 4 occasions. But I have incubated and sold many dozens of them with success and nothing like this, so I'm 99% certain its not genetic.

My theory - a little background first. This broody started sitting about 6 weeks ago. The first batch of maybe 6-7 eggs, nothing hatched (several made it past day 14 though), so I only gave her 4 more eggs (not knowing if she would tough out another 3 weeks), and 2 hatched. This eggtopsy was one of the 2nd batch that didn't hatch. The first batch were mostly scrambled when I opened them, or just plain late deaths, I thought. Oh, and one of the other hens had broken an egg on the first set, so they ended up pretty nasty. See, these birds are at my farm, and while tended to daily, they are not monitored constantly by me, so I could not separate her and be able to let her out as much as she would have needed. She picked a nest box, and I left her there. The other hens continued to contribute to the nest and I removed the extra eggs. Momma would get up when the other hens came around, so I think it was the other hens jostling the eggs around that did them in. Plus the heating/cooling/heating/cooling of alternating hens in the box, I believe played a part. It took the other hens a good week into the second set for them to start laying in other boxes. I think the broody finally put her foot down! I'll have a better plan if another one goes broody, for sure.

And just another side note -- I set 6 eggs in my incubator just a day before she started sitting the first time. 4 of 6 were fertile, 3 of those 4 hatched and are happy and healthy still. The last one was malpositioned and I waited too long to help it. Upon eggstopsy, it looked perfect. Just upside down.

Sorry for the book.... lol

 

[jenniferlamar70]

One more thing that I just thought about, (I brood lots of silkie chicks) do you have a thermometer in the brooder? My last few batches that were done this spring and summer did really well with lower heat. I'm talking like were totally off of heat by one week (it's around 80 in the house) and they were fine. They thrived really well. I would try reducing your heat a bit. Trust me if they are cold they let you know. If she continues to eat, drink, peck around and sleep then she's not cold. All of mine are done with heat usually by 3 weeks but these last few were by 1 week old. The heat might be keeping her on the dehydrated side. Just a thought!

I don't keep a thermometer. I usually tell by the chicks behavior. She loves the heat. Most of the time she lays directory under it lately which I'm sure has contributed to her being dehydration. I'm almost positive she has caught a bug. Last night I noticed some other chicks looking droopy and then 1 seemed to have trouble pooping. I've now started all the chicks even the ones not acting sick on antibiotics.

x2! I took the brooder plate out of my brooder with those last lavs after the first week. They were fine. I even moved them outside last night, for their first night. I rarely keep them inside for 3 weeks like I did these, but I didn't have room outside! lol I

Yes we just took our 4 week old out to the coop for their first night. They did really good. I have lights on but all my chicks have an area with light in the brooder and another half with no light so they can decide for themselves. It's summer here right now so I don't want them overheating either.

So I had an odd eggtopsy that I thought I would share. It is one of the lavender orpington eggs that my girl was sitting on that I could tell was DIS. It was still moving on day 18, but by the time the other 2 hatched, I could tell this one had quit. I opened it to find an undeveloped skull and a hole in its spine. The top beak was shorter than the bottom. The abdomen was totally swollen, but yolk was 99% absorbed. Very strange, but I'm glad this chick didn't make it! I've hatched dozens of these babies with none of these issues! Warning - Eggtopsy photos below.

Spoiler: Warning: Eggtopsy photos

Looks fairly normal late death from this angle, but the dark blob below the chick seemed to be a dried blood mass (not attached to the chick, although the pic kinda looks like it) Sat the chick up, that's the top of its head, between my fingers! See the beak? Shorter on top than the bottom, and may have been crossed. Our ducks beak is shorter on the top then the bottom and one side looks squished. I think ours is from to high temps though. This is a view from the back. Head on top (I guess that's the brain, no skull!), the bare spot in the center is its spine.

I think i'd still take her to the vet and have them teach you how to give subcutaneous fluids and how to tube feed. Unless there is a defect in her digestive tract, fluids will help when they get constipated. Are you using shavings for bedding? -Kathy

The vet wasn't being very nice. I don't think they would help me with much. She is eating and drinking. I have been making sure I take her to the water and she drink.

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Ok so update. 2 big chickens in the coop are acting sick. They have diarrhea and are acting droopy. Chicks are having trouble pooping and acting droopy. I'm thinking my daughter has brought something in from the coop. I'm feeling so frustrated with her because she knows the hand washing rule after leaving the coop but obviously has been to relaxed somewhere. This chicken we got from a friend constantly gets sick. I don't know why and it's only her. I wish we could give her back. I feel like she is always compromising the rest of my flock. Ugh. Everyone's going on to antibiotics. Here is to 2 weeks of hell taking care of sick everything..

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Just wanted to add we started antibiotics last night and everyone is looking improved this morning.

 

[ShanandGem]

Just wanted to add we started antibiotics last night and everyone is looking improved this morning.

Good luck, that sucks. I have had little sicknesses sweep through that affect 2-3 birds but never the whole flock. I haven't had to resort to antibiotics yet though. Do you just put it in their water, or do you have to dose each bird individually?

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Good luck, that sucks.  I have had little sicknesses sweep through that affect 2-3 birds but never the whole flock.  I haven't had to resort to antibiotics yet though.  Do you just put it in their water, or do you have to dose each bird individually?

Only 2 birds in my flick are sick but I will treat them all because they have all been exposed. The chicks in the house are sick also. We use antibiotics that go into the water. I make a gallon a day and put it in everyone's watering dishes. I refrigerate so I can make it every other day now but it's a pain. I'm glad to see its already working on the chicks. I want to give the 2 back that we got from my husband's friend. They seem to not be very healthy. I don't want to though because they don't take very good care of their chickens. I'm thinking it might not be a virus with the big chickens. Maybe liver damage since they are the only ones who ever get sick. Plus the leghorn comb keeps getting blue on it. It's been that ways since we got her. I really didn't want to take them but we were put in a spot where we couldn't refuse..

 

[RubyNala97]

So I had an odd eggtopsy that I thought I would share. It is one of the lavender orpington eggs that my girl was sitting on that I could tell was DIS. It was still moving on day 18, but by the time the other 2 hatched, I could tell this one had quit. I opened it to find an undeveloped skull and a hole in its spine. The top beak was shorter than the bottom. The abdomen was totally swollen, but yolk was 99% absorbed. Very strange, but I'm glad this chick didn't make it! I've hatched dozens of these babies with none of these issues! Warning - Eggtopsy photos below.

Spoiler: Warning: Eggtopsy photos

Looks fairly normal late death from this angle, but the dark blob below the chick seemed to be a dried blood mass (not attached to the chick, although the pic kinda looks like it) Sat the chick up, that's the top of its head, between my fingers! See the beak? Shorter on top than the bottom, and may have been crossed. This is a view from the back. Head on top (I guess that's the brain, no skull!), the bare spot in the center is its spine.

Very, very interesting. Glad it did not hatch and in this case nature did the right thing. Thanks for posting these.

Good thing it didn't hatch. Poor thing. Interesting, thanks. That's sad. Age of eggs could definite play a big role I it. I would think the environmental conditions, maybe warm enough to cause sporadic inconsistent growth could have played a factor as well.

That's an interesting thought too.

I think i'd still take her to the vet and have them teach you how to give subcutaneous fluids and how to tube feed. Unless there is a defect in her digestive tract, fluids will help when they get constipated. Are you using shavings for bedding? -Kathy

I need to learn this. Heck, I should just start vet school myself!

I don't keep a thermometer. I usually tell by the chicks behavior. She loves the heat. Most of the time she lays directory under it lately which I'm sure has contributed to her being dehydration. I'm almost positive she has caught a bug. Last night I noticed some other chicks looking droopy and then 1 seemed to have trouble pooping. I've now started all the chicks even the ones not acting sick on antibiotics. Yes we just took our 4 week old out to the coop for their first night. They did really good. I have lights on but all my chicks have an area with light in the brooder and another half with no light so they can decide for themselves. It's summer here right now so I don't want them overheating either. The vet wasn't being very nice. I don't think they would help me with much. She is eating and drinking. I have been making sure I take her to the water and she drink.

Try turning it off for an hour and see what happens. If they get to hot they will just plop down under the light and be kind of out of it, almost saggy looking. What watt bulb is it?

Ok so update. 2 big chickens in the coop are acting sick. They have diarrhea and are acting droopy. Chicks are having trouble pooping and acting droopy. I'm thinking my daughter has brought something in from the coop. I'm feeling so frustrated with her because she knows the hand washing rule after leaving the coop but obviously has been to relaxed somewhere. This chicken we got from a friend constantly gets sick. I don't know why and it's only her. I wish we could give her back. I feel like she is always compromising the rest of my flock. Ugh. Everyone's going on to antibiotics. Here is to 2 weeks of hell taking care of sick everything..

Maybe they need corid instead of antibiotics. Could it be cocci related?

 

[ShanandGem]

@RubyNala97 I have had 100% results with birds recovering from mild cocci symptoms with vitamin treatment. I've never understood denying a sick bird a vital nutrient to 'cure' it. I strongly feel they need to fight it on their own and develop immunity to the local viuses/bacteria. One bird took as long as 6 weeks to fully recover, but now it's HUGE and thriving. He had the bloody diarrhea, extreme lethargy, the whole nine yards. I didn't separate him either, and none of the other chicks with him got sick.
I caught it early though, because I am one of those nuts that sits and watches my birds for a long time. I catch changes in behavior really early because I'm always looking.

ETA: Sorry, I reread this post and it came across as a bit 'preachy'. Not my intent!

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Very, very interesting. Glad it did not hatch and in this case nature did the right thing. Thanks for posting these.
That's an interesting thought too.
I need to learn this. Heck, I should just start vet school myself!
Try turning it off for an hour and see what happens. If they get to hot they will just plop down under the light and be kind of out of it, almost saggy looking. What watt bulb is it?
Maybe they need corid instead of antibiotics. Could it be cocci related?

No definitely not cocci. The chicks are already acting like they were never sick after one night on the antibiotics. I have 21 chicks in the grow out/introduction pen outside and none are acting sick. I have 11 chickens and 3 ducks in the big coop and out of all of them only 2 are acting sick. Both were the same ones to act sick last month. I've moved the brooder light away but now all the chicks are huddled in the corner trying to get to the light. I'm sure it's them being sick that's causing the potty problem. Especially after another older chick showed signs. She is in the big brooder with less heat. I think it being to hot would be the obvious reason but tweety is still very active. I would have never guessed she had that blockage. She was running all over her brooder box. The little welsummers were acting droopy and having pooping problems.. ugh they were all running around too. That's why initially I thought they were just droopy from being tired... sorry for such a long explanation. It's hard for me to explain through typing it out if that makes any sense. I always feel scatter brained trying to answer everyone's questions lol. I don't sleep much..

 

[jenniferlamar70]

No definitely not cocci. The chicks are already acting like they were never sick after one night on the antibiotics. I have 21 chicks in the grow out/introduction pen outside and none are acting sick. I have 11 chickens and 3 ducks in the big coop and out of all of them only 2 are acting sick. Both were the same ones to act sick last month. I've moved the brooder light away but now all the chicks are huddled in the corner trying to get to the light. I'm sure it's them being sick that's causing the potty problem. Especially after another older chick showed signs. She is in the big brooder with less heat. I think it being to hot would be the obvious reason but tweety is still very active. I would have never guessed she had that blockage. She was running all over her brooder box. The little welsummers were acting droopy and having pooping problems.. ugh they were all running around too. That's why initially I thought they were just droopy from being tired... sorry for such a long explanation. It's hard for me to explain through typing it out if that makes any sense. I always feel scatter brained trying to answer everyone's questions lol. I don't sleep much..

I forgot to add all of our chicks are in the house. We have a large utility room where we brood the chicks. Our air conditioner runs all day long so it's only about 70 degrees in the house.