Hard decision - cull Thor now or later? PICS added!

[gritsar]

My vet knows alot about chickens, naturally, since we live smack dab in the middle of Poultry Production, USA. She just can't see chickens in her office due to the nature of her practice. Most of her clients are farm animals - horses and cows. As is common around here most of the folks that keep large farm animals are also poultry producers for either Tyson or Pilgrims Pride. If word got out that the vet saw a chicken in her office she'd almost certainly lose clients. It is forbidden for a commercial poultry producer to knowingly expose themselves to backyard birds. I was asked to leave the property of one of DH's long-time friends once it became known that I had backyard birds.

I adore Thor. He's my favorite amongst the brahma flock. I just have to question what his quality of life would be like if he was taken from the free range life he's always known and caged. It's a question of quality vs. quantity.

My Lil' Bit, my baby, was partially blind. I coulda kept her in a cage, I probably shoulda. It would have kept her safe. But she was a chicken and deserved a chickens life; happily free ranging with her flock. I loved that little hen and babied her as much as possible, while still allowing her to live her life. When she was taken by a hawk, goodness but I bawled, for days. I was heartbroken.

If I had to do it all again, would I have caged her to keep her safe? Nope. Now I'm faced with the same sort of situation with Thor. To effectively treat his gout and keep him going until the next flare-up, he'd have to be caged so to allow me to control his enviroment and how much protein he's exposed to. To me, living in a cage doesn't mesh with a happy life. Just MHO, of course.

 

[ranchhand]

I agree, Gritsar, quality of the bird's life is the most important aspect. Far more important than my self-serving pleasure at extending its uncomfortable life. I only hope someone shows me the same mercy someday.

 

[GhostRider65]

Gritsar
I did not mean to imply if I did? that you won't help Thor or that his best interests are not in your heart, but what gave you the idea he would have to be caged for treatment, It is possible that he might have to be caged a short time each day to make sure he eats his medicine, but I doubt it would be for a long period of time, many things chickens might eat just because it seems they will try almost everything or it can be disguised with a favorite treat, there is always room for creativity in natural treaments.This time could also be used to do lots of loving on him and treats just in case treatment would not work and culling would be the only option then, it will help you find peace knowing you did everything possible and spent at least a few hours each day with him while he was here. When I have lost beloved pets the 1 thing that makes me cry most and longest is I wish I had, had more time with them while they were here.
I just wanted to remind everyone that culling/euthanasia is not always the only option for our beloved pets. I always look at it like this, my foot in their shoes, so in Thors mind would I wish to be killed because of a few hours per day hassle of being away from my flock, or can I suck it up eat my meds and spend the next 22 hours with the girls I love..........hmmmmmmmmmmmm I'll take the couple hours confinement if it means I can continue protecting and loving my girls/ my life.
I also believe that if your pet is so bad off, that any treatment will prolong greater suffering then be done with it as quickly as possible, I don't think Thor is at that door but I do not personally know him or you and that is always the owners decision to make. So Sorry that this decision is weighing so heavy upon you, I wish I could fix it over the net and make you smile, but that technology has not been invented it. Many Hugs to you both. Take care Kim

 

[SourRoses]

Only you can see Thor, watch his behaviour, his movements, his expression, ect... So you're the only one who can decide.
It sounds to me, if he can still see his girls, call them for food, make sure they're in for the night, try to keep them safe from predators, then he still feels he has a purpose.... In the wild, I suppose, he wouldn't be able to pass until he was much further gone, and he would still be trying to fill his purpose by protecting his hens. My anthromorphizing here would be... He'd want to know he protected his flock until someone else could insure their safety... no matter his discomfort.... so as long as he wasn't in obvious agony, I'd let him do his job as long as he can.
Is there anything you can give to chickens for some pain relief? Sometimes for our dogs we use 'Arnica Montana'.. seems to help alot and its completely natural.. just a little something might go a long way towards making his last days/weeks more happy.

 

[GhostRider65]

A few links to check out for everyone
http://ultimatefowl.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/natural-organic-cures-and-remedies-for-poultry/
http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/cancer-pain-management-relief.html this one isn't for chickens but interesting to read, and helpful with cancer patients, used it for my mom.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=39324 1 from our forum
http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww24eii.htm a good know all site with different parrot herbs' I would think many could be used on our poultry, parrots are much harder to treat with anything they die easily I have been told.
http://retreivehealth.com/research/index.cfm
http://home.earthlink.net/~astrology/herbs.html
http://www.ehow.com/way_5523618_articular-gout-treatment-poultry.html
http://www.avianweb.com/gout.html
http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/gout.html
http://www.suite101.com/content/natural-cures-for-gout-to-lower-uric-acid-a218375
http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww16eii.htm
http://www.lorikeets.com/gout.htm
http://www.earthclinic.com/pets.html
http://www.woodlandnaturalremedies.com/canwebsite/about_us.html
If anyone needs more help just google natural cures for whatever ailment your pet has you will find tins of info, as with all internet you must decide for yourself whats good and what isn't some sites are crappy just looking to sell you there stuff but many are very helpful, and alot of the meds listed are available at any health food store always buy organic if possible, ask the for usage iinfo or call a vet some do know a bit about holistic medicine and most can say it a certain plant is ok to use on your pet. Kim

 

[gritsar]

I assumed from what I have read and learned from asking, that to properly treat the gout Thor would have to be confined in order to control his enviroment, limit the amount of toxins he is exposed to and monitor his protein intake. The latter would be fun, as I saw the brahmas munching on a mouse this morning.

I know about gout in humans. The information I've found about gout in chickens is limited.

 

[GhostRider65]

My critters are human hehehe to me anyway

I would treat him as a human child more or less, his intake of proteins is at first going to be limited, because they are compounding the problem a bit, but I don't think that the real problem is the excess protein I 'm thinking toxin over load from feed and possible 2enviromenmtal things he is eating that have been sprayed by chemicals ( environmental problems again arg I hate this) the ACV will help alot all by itself to clean his blood, parsley is also a great cleaner for the kidneys, and one of the medicines given my dog, because the toxins in her food are what caused the cancer in the first place. These are just some of the reasons I believe so strongly in a healthy food supply, not chemically treated or Genetically modified garbage the governments greed would have us eat. just as the fluoride in our cities water will kill your horses/dogs/cats and kill you too, in time. The chemicals they allow in food, in the water, the air is ridiculous. Our bodies were never meant to eat or rid ourselves of these things they build up in our systems until we are so sick or dying the Dr.s/vets have no idea why, they can only treat the symptoms not the cause because they are taught these things just happen??? My Big Arse they do, people/animals have been around a very long time and until recent pollution, and chemical additives, hormones, GMO foods, mostly we have been very healthy and vigorous, our bodies take care of themselves. 1000 years ago there was no aids, cancer, gout, ect. many of the diseases we have today, sure their has always been viral/fungal diseases and germs, vitamin deficiencies that cause illness, fact of life but most all the newer diseases these days are caused by our environment, over the counter meds, and stupid Dr.s/vets who believe everything the man has taught them so well or they subscribe to the all mighty dollar. In any case they can not or will not treat your body they just prescribe drugs, that for the most part have far more side effects than you originally had symptoms. So I believe in Thor's case he is eating too much of Monsanto's altered round up ready corn soy wheat you name it. NO one needs to eat round up you are not a weed to be killed, but if you eat corn non organic in any way you are consuming roundup, its in the plant, leached into the soil so it's in the water, in the animal that eats it, then into us or the products that are made with it. It is a fat soluble product, so it will never clean itself out of anything, and our fat cells will store it because our bodies have no idea what the heck to do with it.
I think if you start treatment with him and limit his intake of crap he will fix himself. Feed him the best all natural foods if organic is too expensive, all natural isn't organic but it is not chemically treated with anything, though do be careful of the corn, a chicken can live without corn, many veggi's can be substituted buy worms crickets, at pet supply stores, not from your local area if you think that the environmental contamination is greater near you. Give him lots of green treats from your garden, and use no insecticides yourself. These are the best tips I can give you and not just for Thor for you and your children and family too. I will look up some more natural treatments later tonight if I find any that I think will help him I will post them here. Praying for you both. Hugz Kim

 

[Happy Chooks]

Quote:
I understand how hard it was for you to lose Lil Bit.

Last Tuesday, I lost my favorite hen (and my only broody) to a fox. (I know it was a fox because I saw it on my property twice) It climbed a 6 foot fence and got her. (why is it always the favorites?) I cried for days, she was my "lap chicken" and always came to me to be picked up and loved. She had a hard time reintegrating after raising her babies, and she loved to be close to me after I helped her reintegrate. I miss her tremendously, but I wouldn't have caged her.

 

[chicknmania]

I haven't read all the replies, just jumping in here...but wait a second...how old is Thor? How do you know it's gout? Have you tried giving him some baby aspirin? Check him for leg mites? Just tried penning him up for a bit so he can rest the leg? Lots of times it isn't what you think. Unless he's really old, I'd certainly give him a chance to recover, especially since there's some emotional ties. And by really old I mean way over ten.

 

[gritsar]

Quote:
Oh Happy, I hadn't heard/read. So sorry

Yep, from the beginning I told myself that Lil'Bit would be the first to be taken. I just knew it in my heart. It happens and life goes on. It helps knowing that they lived the good life right up until that point. My chickens are the most spoiled of all our critters...and that's saying something, considering how bad Jax and Kane are spoiled.