Hatch out in a carton or on the wire?

[twigg]

Quote:

Very funny.

Out of a home-made incubator no less. Will wonders never cease?

I'm just a subversive agitator.

Thanks for the best BYC belly laugh today

 

[Happy Chicken Mama]

Me too... so thanks as well!

Belly laughs are good!

Especially if you are a Stodgy Brit!

 

[Scraps]

I've always used an egg carton with great results, no one has died on me yet! I cut a good sized hole in the bottom of the cups and cut the sides of the carton down about a 1/3 of the way. I use the styrofoam ones, i think the paper cartons would get gooey. I read about both ways to hatch and it made sense to me that if the eggs are upright in a turner for 18 days then they should be upright to hatch. I guess if you hand turn them everyday laying on their sides to hatch would be better.....
who knows what is better, I just know that it works for me

 

[antiquebuff]

I have never used the egg carton hatching, but I am going to try it this time. I have them in the bator. I cut the bottom out of the carton a little for air circulation. Now , I need to know how you turn them? I have the pointy side down. Thanks!

 

[Happy Chicken Mama]

Scraps... so you switch them to egg cartons without holes in them before they hatch???

Does anyone?

Or do you just leave them in the ones with holes??

 

[twigg]

Quote:
If you can find a single research paper, a book, an academic article, or any manufacturer of incubators that recommends this practise, then I say go for it.

If you can't, then it remains an unproven, and unnecessary practise.

Not all advice is informed advice

I believe you'll find a good number of people on BYC who have been hatching this way and have had improved results with it......seems like Twigg is the only one on here dead set against doing it that way. I don't think you have to have someone do a research paper on a new way of doing something to find out it works well. I don't know why it bothers him so much.

Ok Katy, I'm aboard the Nice Train, so I'll try to explain.

To start with ... a research paper wouldn't be undertaken to find out if it works, it would be done to find out WHY it works.

Here is the totality of my point:

The main premise of those who are using egg cartons, is a feeling that eggs being kicked around in a hatcher must be bad for them, the corollory being that if we can stop this happening then it must, by definition, be good for them. There are other points, but that is the main one that has been expressed in BYC.

However, I have yet to see ANY evidence that the eggs mind being kicked around. It would be just as easy, and just as futile, to suggest that being kicked around like a soccer ball by the USA Soccer Team (lots of activity, no real direction), is, in fact necessary for the strength of the hatching chicks.

So, simply on the strength of a few people thinking it a good idea, others are being persuaded to use this approach, with little regard for the chance that the apparent light at the end of the hatching tunnel could well be a freight train coming towards you.

Secondly, and crucially, some people even suggest that their hatch rates have improved using this method.

Well that is just plain wrong! If it is true, and it's a big, unproven *if*, then it actually suggests something quite different. It suggests that those people had a minor technique issue that was corrected by the provision of a micr-climate around the hatching eggs. If this is the case, then it is the underlying issue that needs to be dealt with, at which point the necessity for egg cartons might not be so apparent.

If I were way off base here then those of us achieving extremely high hatch rates without cartons should not be. The eggs should be suffering from the trauma.

The reality is that there is no evidence that the use of cartons in this manner has any positive effect. That's why I repeatedly ask for some and it is never forthcoming, just vague comments about *Twigg's anger*.

Less is more ..... I am reluctant to advise the use of anything in an incubator that doesn't have demonstrable therapeutic value. Especially when there might be the risk that adding large lumps of cardboard or styrofoam could interfere with carefully designed air flow and humidity management.

Were it the case that excellent results were being denied, then I would support all attempts to solve the issue. But excellent results are acheived without egg cartons, and that is reason enough to advise against their use.

Regards

Steve

 

[twigg]

Quote:
I strongly deny *stodgy* .... Dang Yanks

 

[Happy Chicken Mama]

I don't think anything is rolling around under my big fat cochin.

Who's to say that rollin' around IS natural?????

This is fun! I like lively debates.

Twiggy dear... do you need to get your inhaler after that long winded speech?

Which was very informative by the way...

 

[Katy]

Quote:
I believe you'll find a good number of people on BYC who have been hatching this way and have had improved results with it......seems like Twigg is the only one on here dead set against doing it that way. I don't think you have to have someone do a research paper on a new way of doing something to find out it works well. I don't know why it bothers him so much.

Ok Katy, I'm aboard the Nice Train, so I'll try to explain.

To start with ... a research paper wouldn't be undertaken to find out if it works, it would be done to find out WHY it works.

Here is the totality of my point:

The main premise of those who are using egg cartons, is a feeling that eggs being kicked around in a hatcher must be bad for them, the corollory being that if we can stop this happening then it must, by definition, be good for them. There are other points, but that is the main one that has been expressed in BYC.

However, I have yet to see ANY evidence that the eggs mind being kicked around. It would be just as easy, and just as futile, to suggest that being kicked around like a soccer ball by the USA Soccer Team (lots of activity, no real direction), is, in fact necessary for the strength of the hatching chicks.

So, simply on the strength of a few people thinking it a good idea, others are being persuaded to use this approach, with little regard for the chance that the apparent light at the end of the hatching tunnel could well be a freight train coming towards you.

Secondly, and crucially, some people even suggest that their hatch rates have improved using this method.

Well that is just plain wrong! If it is true, and it's a big, unproven *if*, then it actually suggests something quite different. It suggests that those people had a minor technique issue that was corrected by the provision of a micr-climate around the hatching eggs. If this is the case, then it is the underlying issue that needs to be dealt with, at which point the necessity for egg cartons might not be so apparent.

If I were way off base here then those of us achieving extremely high hatch rates without cartons should not be. The eggs should be suffering from the trauma.

The reality is that there is no evidence that the use of cartons in this manner has any positive effect. That's why I repeatedly ask for some and it is never forthcoming, just vague comments about *Twigg's anger*.

Less is more ..... I am reluctant to advise the use of anything in an incubator that doesn't have demonstrable therapeutic value. Especially when there might be the risk that adding large lumps of cardboard or styrofoam could interfere with carefully designed air flow and humidity management.

Were it the case that excellent results were being denied, then I would support all attempts to solve the issue. But excellent results are acheived without egg cartons, and that is reason enough to advise against their use.

Regards

Steve

I'm done arguing this issue with you.

I will continue to recommend it to people who ask about it.

Not all of us need to see the scientific proof to know something works.

 

[Happy Chicken Mama]

Delightful... I can't wait to see what everyone has to say about this... in the morning.. night!