Hatching emergency!I thought I was doing an eggtopsy but it is alive!

[cejones119]

So I thought I would be doing an eggtopsy on one of my call duck eggs. I'm two days past the last day of hatch, there was no blood vesseling and definitely no movement. I pulled away the shell above the air cell and low and behold this duck is alive!! I don't see any vesseling, but there is still liquid in the membrane. I made a small slit before I realized it was alive. So how is this thing breathing in a liquid filled shell without blood supply? I think he might be upside down because I don't see any sign of a head as far as I can tell. So my question is were do I go from here? I've never had this happen before...

 

[adrian]

Can you see a yolk sac? The lack of blood vessels usually signals that the baby has drawn in the blood and yolk and is ready to hatch. Liquid in the egg can be from excessive humidity during incubation/hatch. Sounds like the baby is improperly positioned. Watch him -- is he breathing? Is he responding? Is he vocalizing? It is possible that he is alive, but hasn't began to breathe and is positioned wrongly so if he starts to breathe, will aspirate fluids and die. I have had duck eggs do this before, usually due to excessive humidity during incubation. Do you have a camera or something? I've dealt with a lot of situations that sound similar to this, and being able to visualize it would be really helpful.

 

[cejones119]

I don't see a yolk sac. He is moving like he is breathing but I can't imagine he is. He isn't vocalizing but he is moving a little.

Here's a picture, you can't see much though. The membrane is more pliable than it looks. I moistened it a little before I put him back in the incubator

 

[SpringChickens]

Hope he hatches for you! I wouldn't worry about it too much - I actually worked in a lab where we made transgenic quail. We would crack the egg, do the manipulations, then put it in a chicken eggshell to hatch just covered in saran wrap. I would think you'll be ok...

 

[adrian]

Looks like there might be a blood vessel there but not 100% sure. Wet it more and try to see if it looks active.

That egg is very wet. I'm thinking very high humidity. Sadly the babies very often drown in these circumstances.

Try to be certain whether there is veining on the membrane. If you do not see any, take off the remainder of the membrane from the top. Have cornstarch nearby in case there is bleeding. If there is bleeding... Put some cornstarch on the source and it should stop. From the looks of it, not many active vessels. If you can get rid of the top membrane here, you might be able to get a better view of how the duckling is positioned. Where his head is. His head is the most important thing right now because drowning is the biggest threat. Also trying to be sure that he's breathing is important... Is the movement regular? Is he expanding his chest? I've noticed that birds before they breathe will do movements similar to it, but it's not consistent and not as exaggerated or noticeable. Breathing should expand the chest a lot.

So, get in there and see if there are blood vessels and bleeding. Once you get a better look: try to find a head, and try to find a yolk sac. It might be hard or impossible to find his head. Right now try to see if there are active blood vessels and a yolk. Also try to be certain of whether or not he is breathing. If he is breathing, there must be less liquid down where his head is. In which case we have to take a different tactic, but only if the yolk and blood vessels have been absorbed.

 

[cejones119]

Here's a picture after I took off the membrane. You're right, there are a few smaller blood vessels. He bled a little bit, but nothing major. I can see his beak. It's the black and white striped thing at the left side of the egg. I can't tell if there is any yolk though. What do you think, should I liberate his beak so he can get some air at least? or leave him since he does still have blood supply?

 

[adrian]

Okay... Very good. Dab at the blood, make sure it stops. Probably won't be a big deal, though. I've had a lot more blood than that in the past with some eggs. How much liquid is around his beak? Press your finger against the membrane to try to judge it. It looked like a rather wet egg so you may want to do just that. However at this point his chances are a lot higher than I suspected because he is in a correct position. Phew.

However from what I can tell from here -- and I may be wrong -- the egg looks very wet. If there is liquid near his beak, definitely free it. I've had eggs like this, duck eggs actually, that I saved by freeing their beaks. Very wet eggs as well. If the beak is freed and the blood stops, his chances are pretty good but the rest is up to him. You'll have to keep an eye on him to ensure he doesn't dry out and get stuck, but the biggest threat is drowning. And people often say do not help chicks... Well in this case environmental issues contribute to this, not the chick's fault. Everyone's had humidity issues in the past. And babies can often be saved.

 

[cejones119]

There isn't very much liquid between his beak and the surface but there is a lot of liquid on either side. I should also mention that these eggs come from someone else's ducks. He says of the few dozen he's incubated he's never had one hatch on it's own. He did fail to mention that until after they were well into incubation haha.

 

[adrian]

Hmm, it is interesting because when I did see very wet eggs, I only got them from one guy who hadn't hatched any of the eggs himself. I have never seen it in anyone else's eggs, but I assumed it was the fault of my hygrometer at the time rather than any management issues with his birds. Every single duck egg I got from him, however, was filled with dark brown goo, so much so that the babies would drown without intervention, and I really felt that I was not going too high with the humidity seeing as the air cells were large, but there is certainly room for error with hygrometers so it made me wonder. One thing you can do with eggs like these is take an oral syringe and actually syphon some of the brown goo away. It literally will do nothing at this point and does not harm them... The goo itself is a drowning hazard. So just personally, I would try to get rid of some of it, and depending on the number of active blood vessels around his beak I might free it as well. But it is up to you. So long as the beak is not surrounded by liquid he should be able to breathe. Also, pay attention to his nostrils: that's what you want to be watching. Not the rest of the beak. I actually had a duckling with this goo in his nostrils, but because so much had gotten in, he did not survive.

Also... as an afterthought... Really do try to keep bleeding to a minimum because to a small bird like this a little blood can be a lot. Cornstarch, flour, or cayenne actually work well as coagulators.

 

[cejones119]

Here he is with his little face free. The blood vessels appear to be already absorbing. I can't see any yolk, but I suppose that doesn't mean it's not there. I took out a bunch of the goo with some Qtips. So here's my next question. I still have my whole clutch in the incubator, some of them look like they just aren't ready (the guy i got them from also talked about having strange incubation times with them) There is one that looks exactly like this one, no movement, think it might be dead (but apparently I can't tell!). There is another that looks the same but is moving. one has internally pipped, definitely leaving that one alone.