Have you ever been to a REALLY bad backyard breeder?

[rhoda_bruce]

But you know...I just don't know what the authorities could do. I guess it depends on the local animal control laws of a given township. In my area, we are allowed to have farm animals as long as they are contained and cannot enter the roads and highways. That leaves a lot at the descretion of the owners.
On one hand, too many laws would prohibit me from doing some of my current hobbies and not enough laws would also not be good for animals. If I would find out that the council was to be talking about limitations on farm animals at a parish council meeting, you can bet I would show up and ask permission to speak if I felt the need.

 

[possumqueen]

Make the call.

I was an animal control officer for ten years, and I saw lots of bad things and sad things. It was no easy job, but as times changed in favor of animal cruelty laws we were more and more able to make a difference.

And it was frequently the case that the people who had the animals ALSO needed help. Poverty and mental illness are an awful combination. It makes me sad that animal cruelty laws are getting way more support now, but poverty and mental illness are still hard to help.

Please don't be too quick to frown on the owners in these situations.

But then, don't give them too much of your money, either.

maggie

 

[kjk]

i agree. make the call.

i was in a similar situation and making the call was one of the harder things i've had to do but also one of the best decisions i've made.

my first experience with a 'breeder' was from craigslist. this was also my first experience with chickens in general. she had several outbuildings full of birds of different breeds and ages. all of the buildings also included barely tame cats with severe respiratory and eye infections. when i went inside the house to use the restroom before leaving i was greeted by no less than 10 small dogs badly in need of grooming. in the bathroom was another dog in active labor unattended. i was horrified by the situation but in so much shock that i took the 8 chicks and went home. over the next 8 weeks i watched 6 of them die of unknown causes. my mom and i cried every single time. i felt like this womans situation was a lack of funds and education more than anything else. i regret contributing to the cycle but i have learned from the experience.

i don't regret my decision to call animal control at all.

 

[cybercat]

Where we are there are lots of so called breeders. I call them producers for there is nothing planned on the breeding and the way they are kept is horrid. True breeders are breeding by plans and goals not just having a bunch of chickens. I have run into way to many with too many chickens and lice, mites ect galore. Very unhealthy and being sold to the public. Ick I see them I run the other way.

 

[mandelyn]

It's taken me a long time to just plain stop the "rescue" while paying money to the ... "offender". You don't BUY a rescue... that's what it took so long to learn. I did have to give a little something on my Shepherd Logan because she did take him to a vet for a medical thing... but I refused to pay what she was asking and threatened to call AC to come get him if she didn't let me take him. He cost me another $450 at the vet after he came home, but atleast I didn't take him quietly and pay what she wanted.

I've only ever "stolen" chickens from my great uncle in TN, or bought them at swaps/markets. But you can tell from the dealers what kind of conditions those birds came out of.

They should be slick and shiney and have neat feathers. This speaks of good feed and enough space.

They should have clean legs, and not show any signs of Scaly Leg. If they are feather-footed, they shouldn't have poo encrusted into those feathers. This speaks of regular coop cleaning or a lot of free range time. As well as attention to mites and such... you can't miss Scaly Leg unless you don't pay any attention to your birds appearance on a regular basis.

They should have nice tails... ones that have crusty, bent/broken, or "seperated" looking feathers weren't getting enough room to live.

Look for any signs of inbreeding, crossed beaks, weird eyes, anything that's just not right about the bird. Many people buy a Trio, and replace the trio with sons/daughters... and so on, until the genetics are no good.

Look for illness... weezing, sneezing, watery eyes, bubbles in the eye, lethargic, anything that seems off.

If you can smell a booth of animals over any other dealer there... DEFINATELY keep on walking. I saw one who appeared to live in his van with his birds, and travel to different flea markets that happened on a week-day. I took his Doberman puppies because he had them roasting on black top in a chicken cage without food/water on a 95 degree day in full sun. Then I told the market security about how bad off his critters were and they had a talk with him about it. Those Dobies grew up crazy and had to be put down after going nuts at 2 years old. Sad. The female I kept was an awesome dog until she just went crazy.

Doesn't matter what the animal... there's bad BYBs for everything out there, and it's up to the buyers to alert authorities since they're the only ones that ever see the situation. Some more rules about animal buying...

- Avoid anyone that won't invite you to their property. If they're adament about meeting you at a gas station off the interstate with a truck load of puppies or whatever... refuse the sale.

- Don't take anyone's word on the health of an animal. Like with Horses... "Oh yeah, he'll pass a pre-purchase exam"... Get one done anyways unless they have had it done already and you spoke with the vet who did it.

- If someone says they're NPIP... ask for proof. People always lie or a fudge the truth when they realize there's something they need to be doing and haven't done. Dog breeders are bad about saying they did OFA, but when you ask to see the papers, they tell you they only got the prelims done at 1 year old and they were fine. That's way different than OFA certificates!

- If at a swap, do a run through of everyone there, and only buy from one seller. If you see a hen there, and hen here... quarentine them SEPERATELY or you could lose everything you bought. That's why I go with a single seller.

- You can tell a lot by the cages they're in. Were they cleaned before this swap? If the show is multiple days, were they cleaned during the show, or dropped off and left? If the cages were supplied... that's harder. Were the cages sanitized after the previous bird in it? Who touched that bird during the whole event? What about the bird next door, did it sneeze on the bird you want to buy? That's what makes fairs different than swaps... many, many birds very near each other, from many different flocks. At a market, there's usually some space between the sellers and everyone brought their own cages.

- Avoid over-crowded sales cages. You can't get a good look at the birds, and it doesn't speak well of where they came from. A seller KNOWS the birds need to be seen to be sold. A good seller anyways.

- Always shop in short sleeves... or remove your jacket and push your sleeves up to hold a bird. This is how you find out if they're infested with mites. Stick your hand into the feathers on the breast, see if bugs are crawling all over your hand. If so, put the bird back, wash, wash, WASH your hands! Bring hand sanitizer, use it after visiting birds from EACH seller. Buy from the seller who brings their own hand sanitizer and demands your use of it before touching their birds!!

- Always shop with a plan, don't deviate from it. Know what you're looking for, and what your criteria is, and how you will handle each situation. If you know you're not going to bother with quarentine, then you better buy from the BEST seller there with the cleanest cages and cleanest birds. Don't think you're going "just to look"... bring the dang dog crate just in case.

- Don't BUY a rescue! You're keeping the person in buisness to make more "rescues" for kind-hearted people to buy! Think of those dupes who pay $1,000 to "rescue" the pet-store puppy! Haggle the price and tell them a piece of your mind. Bring in the authorities. Get a big group of BYC members to bring torches! Anything but quietly, guiltily, BUYING the sad creature.

 

[Camelot Farms]

I received a call from a colleague last winter. Her DH's grandpa had died the day before and he was a life long chicken farmer. The family asked her to help find a home for the chickens and she picked me. I'm always up for free birds...right?

I say 'Sure', then ask how many. She says, Oh, we think about 40. 40! Have mercy. But, I've already said yes and I am already thinking of all of my great friends who would love some of these birds. Then I hear her hubby in the back ground saying "roosters. Make sure she knows some are roosters". Oh dear. I so dont want to have to deal with roos, but once again...I have already said yes.

So, I bribe DS into helping and we load every crate and box we can find and head out to get the birds. Now, the whole time I am talkign to my colleague she is going on and on about how grandpa loved these birds. He was out there everyday with them, sang to them, loved them...Now I have visions of what I am going to see. I envision a beautiful coop, lots of healthy happy birds, pretty run for them.

Pulled in and nearly collapsed. There is an old cement block milk house about 5 feet from the road. You can see that folks have missed the turn before and taken out the corner of the building...repeatedly. Around back is a 4 foot tall rusted wire fence filled with birds, junk, tires, etc. And a big ol' dead rooster half pulled through the fence. Family says, 'lets run them in the milk house, it'll be easier to catch them in there.'. Sounds like a plan to me.

We herd them into the milkhouse and I go around to start taking birds and caging them as they hand them out the door. The door opens and after the dust clears, I see its DS giving me the stink-eye. The dust is several years worth of dried chicken poop. As the chickens are running around being chased, they are stirring up several inches of this probably toxic dust. DS is not impressed. I get him a wet handkerchief to put around his face. This would have been more appreciated if it wasnt 20 degrees outside.

2 hours and 43 birds later, we are loaded up and ready to go. Bigger birds were healthy, smaller birds were not so great. Apparently big birds eat first and little birds eat last if there is anything left. Itty bitty bantams were in with enormous mixed breed roosters. It was a mess. The building looked like it had once held various pens but the sides on some and fallen in and so there were tons of little hidey holes and corners full of poop and feathers and just nasty stuff.

I got them home and dusted for mites and set about finding folks who would like some free starter flocks... 1 roo and 3 hens. I made everyone aware of their health issues and their situation. It worked out well and I got rid of all of the birds that didnt want to keep.

It looked like grandpa just got older and couldnt care for them as well as he used to so he just did the best thay he could. It truly was the worst thing I have ever experienced. A year later the birds that I kept are healthy and happy and producing lots of eggs!

 

[17roses]

I think there is a big difference between a backyard breeder and a "bad" animal owner. I guess you could call me a backyard breeder. I have 3 roosters of different breeds that all take turns with the girls and almost all my chickens are mixed breeds. That being said... I make sure they have food, water and proper shelter as well as watching for health issues. My chickens are freerange and as far as I'm concerned have a great life. I wouldnt sell any of my chickens without the new owner being aware of all possible conserns and that my chickens are far from purebred. When I see chickens that are not properly cared for, I dont think backyard breeder, I think irresponsible owner.

With all that being said... make the call! Cant hurt to try to get these animals to a better life and I dont recommend buying them. The more people who give money, the more likely this behavior will continue. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[cgmccary]

Hey Eggcellent;

Gosh, that is a bad experience. A few months ago I responded to an ad because I needed an aquarium (nothing to do with chickens). It took me to a little old woman's house who had some Silkies. This was in the middle of the hot summer. The Silkies were housed in pairs in the these little dog kennel cages in the baking hot sun. They were panting & some had no water. Those birds that had water, the waterers were completely coated with algae and black gook. The sight of this tore me up.

I said, "Oh, I see you have some Silkies," . . . "I notice they need some water." I offered to help her give them water. She tried to decline my offer but despite that, I took it upon myself & cleaned out the waterers and filled their waterers full. The Silkies went right to the fresh, clean water as soon as I put it in there & drank and drank. I wanted to buy them all to rescue them. I asked her if any were for sale and she said no-- she said, "They are champion Silkies." I felt really bad for those birds. It was so hot outside. I told her they needed a cooler environment and could die in the hot sun. It was awful. No animal should have to live like that.

 

[speckledhen]

I'm afraid I'd blow a gasket if I saw a place like that. It's bad enough when I see pictures of birds and the waterers are completely black and green inside and it's a disgusting mess all over. I never, ever, not EVER, buy started birds. Never. I did once. That was my precious Hawkeye.
Answered an ad in the paper, 4H kid selling this year's birds. Kid put on muck boots and we trekked behind their nice house into the woods where there were several pens unde the dark trees and some cages off the ground. One held lots of RIRs and half the pen was in several inches of water with birds crowded in the only dry spot. There was a huge trough in each pen full of black water. Hawkeye was in a pen with only a turkey for company and it was obvious that the turkey had taken a chunk out of the back of his comb. In fact, one wattle was huge, thick and wrinkled, full of scar tissue and he had several points on his comb missing. The kid had to catch him with a net.

He grabbed him by his legs, turned him upside down and brought him out. He was filthy. DH says, " well, do you want him?" I hesitated, but had had lots of trouble finding a BR rooster, believe it or not, so we took him home. He had favus and lice, but otherwise was healthy (miracle of miracles, considering...). He was in quarantine for five weeks and was the best rooster anyone could ever want. Never was aggressive to people, just a fabulous boy. All roosters since then have had huge spurs to fill. Zane, Dutch, Mace, all were Hawkeye's kids with Lexie. However, never again will I do that. It was way too stressful the entire time. And this kid gets new chicks every year to raise and put in that environment.

People are missing empathy, relating to how the animal must feel when he only has filthy water, or no water, nasty moldy feed and itching and possbily anemic from lice and mites. I feel what they must feel and it's too painful for me to see situations like that very often. Would kill me to leave an animal in a bad situation, but my first loyalty is to my current flock and I can't risk their health.

 

[allanimals21]

This last summer I went to get some top hats from this guy. When I got there I was impressed by the property and such from the outside. He wasnt there so his GF took me in to see the birds. Well I'm gonna say this kid was a collector...or hoarder? The one room was 10 X 12 maybe? With stacked cages of quail, some chickens, and other random little birds. It was about 85-90 degrees at least no ventilation at all. Also in this room was 3 incubators. A momma doxie with like 5 pups? There small area they were in was covered in poop and pee. It just smelled awful. So we went into the next section of the barn which at one point was a milking parlor maybe? There were cans and barrels and boxes all over for nest boxes. I didn't see any straw/hay at all. Just poo on the concrete...don't remember seeing much for feed or water either. No access to outside. They had lil 2ftX2ft if that cages stacked with rabbits in them. One was severely deformed from some illness...my sister knew what it was. So then you go outside and they had canadian geese and turkeys in one area with this nasty green mud hole for their "pond". In a small chain link kennel on pallets was about 20-30 call ducks. Then there was another small chain link kennel peacocks in it. They also raised calves. For a farm or something? Any ways they had 2 pointer puppies that were in a 6x6 kennel that was maybe 4 ft high? and a mini horse that they planned on breeding because you can make good money of them they told me. On top of it all they were living with her mom and were expecting a baby. They were telling me how they didnt have time to care for the animals all the time. Also there were goats in the mix of the turkey/goose area. Just a nasty place. I felt so horrible...I was literally sick to my stomach. Anyways I got my 4 top hats. 2 hens 1 roo and 1 not sure...I payed for them and I left. My sister tried to contact them to buy the deformed rabbit to get it some help but that was her moms favorite and they didnt wanna sell it. When I got them home and looked them over better they were all skin and bones. Despite everthing I lost the roo the first week. This was a few months ago and the 2 hens and the not sure that turned out to be a roo are doing great....I just can't believe some people... it makes me sad and sick