Heads Up

[herfrds]

Violet we are allowed to shoot any wolf we "catch" attacking our livestock. Which is better then what it was.
There is now a wolf hunt here in Montana and Idaho.
Now the State of Wyoming is a different story. It is pretty political so I will leave it there.

The rules used to be if you lived in a certain area you could shoot the wolves going after the livestock, but if you lived in the other area you were not even allowed to shoot a gun even near them. The stories, pictures and video's coming out of that area were horrific.

There is no specific thing that will keep wolves from attacking livestock. Different groups are trying different things.
Cracker shells, bells on fence wire, and numerous other things.
Personally speaking. Like managing the deer, elk, moose and other game animals to keep an area so it provides enough food for them the same should be done with the wolves.
Allow hunting so they have a healthy respect for people and it keeps their numbers where the amount of prey feeds them. No second chances for any livestock killers.

By watching how our cows and horses act tells me if the wolves are around.

 

[VioletBlueIvy]

Thank you herfrds, it's nice to hear it from the source instead of reading about it with one slant or another put on it. It sounds like you dont have anything against the wolves, you just need better management? I think your opinion on managing them just like any other game animal is dead on. The wilderness is not, unfortunately able to manage itself it seems we have messed it up way beyond that possibility in many places. Forever altered it in some places.
I wonder if the wolves are taking the easiest prey available (your livestock) because their isn't enough game to give them a steady supply of weak/sick game animals? If that's the case their populations are growing beyond what can be supported naturally by them preying on the livestock, it must be about the same thing as feeding deer in the winter around here. Do you think that is the case?
You mentioned you tell by your animals behavior when they are around. Do you think it is possible that the livestock behave in a manner that makes them seem like a sick or weak game animal to the wolves and that makes them target the livestock?
Do you think they are just not bothering to take game because they have learned and are adapting to taking livestock? The success of any prey species is dependent upon getting more calories out of your meal than you expended acquiring it. Easy access and the livestock have all sense of self preservation bred out of them so they are easy to kill, and if your wanting lots of calories would you rather have a nice porterhouse with it's tasty marbling of fat or a lean piece of venison?
It has been a long long time since their were large unmanaged herds of game animals to provide them with plenty of sick, weak, young animals which is what they have evolved to prey on. I think that perhaps we are now dealing with a race of wolves that are descended from a small group of animals selected by evolution over the last 1000 years for the ability to quickly learn what is most successful for them. Maybe their isn't enough game to support the current population of wolves?
Do you think they are successful in your area partly because of their eating of livestock?

I am genuinely curious, not being judgmental at all, just learning!



(sp)

 

[herfrds]

Violet we have noticed this year unlike others in the past that there are fewer mule deer around, but a larger number of white tail deer. The wolves and mountain lions follow where the prey is. Just on one neighbors place we counted over 100 white tail deer. So there is plenty of wild game around for them to go after, but it is just easier to go after a cow, calf, sheep or other slower animal. Sort of like us grabbing a meal at a fast food place instead of going home to make a meal. I'm just using that as an example.
If the wolves are hungry they will go after anything around.

What I have seen is our cows will not go into a certain part of our pasture. They will stay together instead of spreading out to graze in small groups. Any sudden movement will send them running. they act completely different.

Yes I believe they are learning that livestock is an easier prey and that is why they take them. I don't think our livestock has had their natural instinct bred out of them to be wary of these type of predators. We have seen our cows chase coyotes out of the pasture where their calves are.

You keep saying the weak and sick. Wolves will go after even the healthy animals. They have a few tricks up their sleeves. A relay of running the animal. Getting them into rough terrain. Natural barriers.
These animals aren't dumb they are pretty smart.

I think their success here is due to the over population of deer. Too many buck hunters and not enough doe hunters.


Better to ask questions and learn then to not ask and learn nothing.

 

[VioletBlueIvy]

It is interesting to hear this from someone living it, because it differs somewhat from what one reads!
I say the weak and sick because of research has been done on wolf kills that show that the only healthy animals taken by wolves are calves/young animals, and that as part of their hunting technique they will 'test' an herd to see what is available, and will always select the diseased, injured, weakened individuals over a health animal. That's what the research suggests anyway. But I think the key point about that is when available. They arent stupid and they will do whatever they need to do to survive no matter what the biologists say they do. I don't think what biologists think is plenty of deer ect. for them, is plenty to the wolves perhaps? According to their own research on their preference on eating the weaker animals, I mean what percentage of the deer are at a disadvantage at any given time is a herd? Historical accounts of thier behavior mention they just followed the herds around eating animals that were already dead or dying. Those size herds and those days are gone. That my thoughts on it anyway.
Bottom line though is those herds have been replaced with wolf fast food restaurants like your farm. Not good for anyone I think... I hope they find a way to make this situation manageable for you and others like you.
Oh, I also saw somewhere where the government pays people for animals they can prove were killed by wolves, is that true?
Yes, I like to learn new things! One should never stop learning, and their is nothing worse than, and no excuse for ignorance in this modern world where there is so much information out there. You have to be careful who is writing what you read though!

( I'm learning that he he)
We have had the same problem with deer in some areas here too. The last few winters have been hard on the deer, they died off by the thousands everywhere when there was too much snow for them to be able to get to their food. Just a few miles from my house, on the interstate they were forming herds right across the road, because the DOT was cutting back the trees along the interstate up here because there are so many Moose/ Car accidents up this way. The sad irony of that was there were hundreds of deer killed right there by cars over the several weeks they were hanging out there. Crazy! Lots of people were feeding the ones that yarded up in the residential areas. We found so many bones out back even here, and the color of the marrow on all of the ones we found proved they were starving when they died. The coyote population has had a huge boom though because of all the dead/dying deer. The other contributing factor here is the reintroduction of turkeys. Some say they eat all the food that the deer do. Some say that's baloney, we personally stopped seeing the deer here when the turkeys started showing up, so do we believe the biologists or our own eyes? HMMMMMM

 

[herfrds]

The government does not do the re-imbursement it is a group called Defenders of Wildlife. They get it through private donations and some government money. They also pay less then fair market value.


You believe your own eyes.

 

[mgw]

I live right next door to Idaho, they now have a wolf hunting season becouse of the population explosion weve had here. they have reduced elk & deer pops around 30% in many areas. the reason they were hunted to near exstinction was becouse they lose thier fear of man and decimate domestic herds. thier ability to reproduce is stunning, those who dont farm or ranch beleive that it is humane to introduce these animals back to the land. this seems to lack critical thinking. Do people think it is wise to let these animals roam free to piladge ranchers herds, while reproducing at an nearly unstoppable rate. not to mention the hunting guide buissinessthat is being damaged from these ideas plus all the dollars hunting brings into rural areas. The folks I know in Idaho wish that the gov. & all the big city do gooders would just leave Idaho alone. I have nothing against wolves but maybe they should check the economic impact of thier actions on others way of life first.

 

[mangled]

We're lucky here in PA, because for once, the Game Commission is actually vehemently opposed to re-introducing the wolves into PA.

We have horrible troubles with coyotes around here. Our best defense is keeping everything locked up tight at night.

I feel that re-introducing wolves would just cause more problems around here.

I spoke with a PA game commissioner about PA re-introducing mountain lions in the rural counties, and he said if they were re-introduced, they would be federally tagged and therefore, protected. I asked him what would they introduce to control the mountain lions? Elephants?

Yes, it is a terrible shame that these animals are disappearing from our wilds, but at the same time, I don't want them in my woods. Folks around here wouldn't care about a federal tag or a protected status. It would be a simple case of SSS.

JMHO-
Em

 

[herfrds]

Here is something that just happened outside of Yellowstone National Park.
There are now 2 large predators going after the same food source and problems are happening.

My sympathy to this mans family.

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/ar...-mauling-in-Montana-campground-by-Yellowstone

 

[heatherindeskies]

Quote:
a bit off topic, but how does one choke on a ball point pen?

 

[VioletBlueIvy]

a bit off topic, but how does one choke on a ball point pen?

Seriously! I imagine they pulled only a few stats off some master list, might be fun to see what else is on there....LOL!
Of course it is probably not funny to anyone that has choked on one...

Yes, herefords I believe my own eyes as well.

What a mess the whole thing is! I feel bad for the people, sad for the wildlife, disgusted by the closed mindedness on both sides that seems to be getting in the way of the best solutions. Mostly it is just sad I guess...​