heart broken... coyote... my final say

[mmaddie's mom]

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Wow, I wish you were closer! ... or someone just like you! Thanks for what you do to help keep things in balance.

 

[spottedtail]

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CT_Todd....You are correct, but go easy!

Yes, people will be heartbroken when they insist on free ranging pet hens.
But you know what? Experience is the best teacher!
It's just human nature to shoot for the ideal situation, but hard experience
often shows us whats ideal and whats best are not the same thing.

Backyard poultry is on the increase everywhere.
Many of these newcomers will find this website. It's a good one.
These new people will always ask the same questions and make the same mistakes, so you'll see the same basic posts over and over. But remember, we were all new at one time and we've all made some mistakes.
If advice doesn't steer people the right way, experience will.

spot

 

[gsoneriet]

I have the same problems with raccons and possums i usually just trap them and take them away I lost a Domique,Australorp,and red cochin bantam to some posssum and raccoons.

 

[gsoneriet]

I have problems with raccons and possums, my chickens are also free range but they go in the pen at night and get let out around noon every day, I usually just trap my predators.

 

[callducklover20]

I think we need Billy the Exterminator lol-I just like the idea that he traps and then takes them some where else, really dont like anything shot but I wont get on anyones case if they do it.

 

[cafarmgirl]

There is only one long term solution I have found for the coyote problem. I don't allow them access to my birds. Coyotes are very intelligent and very hard to get rid of and they are like roaches, if you've got one you've got a lot more you haven't seen yet. I personally don't ever use the coyote call, I don't want to attract them, I want them going the other way! You would have to really be on top of that if you did use it, is it really feasible for you or somebody else to be keeping watch all the time so you can get it if it does come in? When we do see one we fire off a shot and they go packing and are gone for a long time. If they are close enough they get shot dead. They know guns and this is the only thing we've found that keeps them away for a while. And they always come back eventually.

A dog helps, but don't depend on one to prevent kills. I had a very good Australian shepherd who would bark up a storm if one was around, alerting us to do our job of pulling out the rifle. Also, coyotes do indeed hunt in packs sometimes, they are not always alone and they will lure out and kill a lone farm dog. If you decide to go the dog route get a LGD like a Pyrenees. Known to kill and eat coyotes.

I know you mentioned this is not a discussion about free ranging but the point is that as long as those birds are out there you will have another predator, and another and another. You can keep killing and trapping and whatever, there will always be another and birds lost over and over.

 

[woodmort]

Here is the NYS DEC's take on Coyotes--note the last paragraph:

"Coyote Conflicts

The Eastern coyote is firmly established in New York. They live in New York as an integral part of our ecosystem. People and coyotes can usually coexist if the natural fear of people that coyotes have is maintained.

Below are some steps you can take to reduce/prevent coyote problems from occurring. For additional information see our wildlife damage control page.

Do not feed coyotes
If you see a coyote, be aggressive in your behavior - make loud noises, wave your arms, throw sticks and stones.
Do not allow pets to run free.
Do not feed pets outside.
Make any garbage inaccessible to coyotes and other animals.
Eliminate availability of bird seed. Coyotes are attracted to the concentration of birds and rodents that come to feeders. If you do feed birds, clean up waste seed and spillage.
Fencing your yard may deter coyotes. The fence should be tight to the ground, preferably extending six inches below ground level.
Remove brush and tall grass from around your property to reduce protective cover for coyotes
Teach children to appreciate coyotes from a distance.
Regulated hunting and trapping increases the "fear" coyotes have towards people.
Ask your neighbors to follow these same steps.

Coyotes and People
Coyotes provide a great deal of benefits to New Yorkers thru observation, photography, hunting and trapping. However, not all interactions are pleasant. Some coyotes in suburbia have lost their fear of people. This can result in a dangerous situation. A coyote who does not fear people should be considered dangerous. Coyotes in residential areas quickly learn to associate food with people. Suburban coyote food (garbage, pet food, pets) is saturated with human odor. Human behavior has changed to be non-threatening to coyotes (running into your home after seeing a coyote is behaving like prey). In short, food smells like people and people behave like prey. Add to the mix people intentionally feeding coyotes and the potential for a coyote attack becomes very real.

Potential does exist for coyote attacks in New York. However, a little perspective may be in order. On average 650 people are hospitalized and one person killed by dogs each year in New York State. Nationwide, only a handful of coyote attacks occur yearly.

Coyotes and Pets
Of great concern to many people is the interaction of coyotes with cats or dogs. Do coyotes kill cats? Absolutely, but so do foxes, dogs, bobcats, vehicles, and even great horned owls. Cat owners need to be aware that cats allowed to roam free are at risk from many different factors. To protect your cat, keep it indoors, or allow it outside only under supervision. Coyotes in some areas appear to become "specialists" at catching and killing cats.

Do dog owners need to be concerned about coyotes? The answer is maybe. Conflicts between dogs and coyotes occur primarily in the months of March and April. It is during this time that coyotes are setting up their denning areas for the soon-to-arrive pups. Coyotes become exceptionally territorial around these denning sites in an attempt to create a safe place for their young. Coyotes view other canines (dogs) as a threat to their young. Essentially it comes down to a territorial dispute between your dog and the coyote. Both believe that your yard is their territory.

Owners of large and medium sized dogs have little to worry about. Coyotes, with an average weight of 35 lbs., know they are overmatched by large dogs and will yield part of their territory (your yard) to the dog. A confrontation may occur between a mid sized dog and a coyote. Such confrontations, however, usually do not involve physical contact between the two animals. The dog and coyote usually come to an understanding on whose territory is whose.

Owners of small dogs have cause for concern. The outcome of a confrontation between a small dog and a coyote will depend a lot upon the behavior of the dog. A coyote knows it is physically superior to a small dog and expects the dog to be submissive. Trouble occurs when a small dog does not submit to a coyote. The coyote will discipline the dog to correct its inappropriate behavior. This discipline will continue until the dog submits or is eventually killed.

Very small dogs, e.g., small poodles, are viewed by coyotes as easy prey and are at risk to be killed year round.

Coyotes and Livestock
Problems with coyotes and livestock do occur in New York. Most problems involve sheep or free ranging chickens and ducks. Most problems can be avoided with proper husbandry techniques. It is much easier to prevent depredation from occurring than it is to stop it once it starts. Contact your Regional DEC Wildlife Office or the USDA APHIS - Wildlife Services, 1930 Route 9, Castleton NY 12033, Phone (518) 477-4837 or visit their web site for more information."

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:

Yes, people will be heartbroken when they insist on free ranging pet hens.
But you know what? Experience is the best teacher!
It's just human nature to shoot for the ideal situation, but hard experience
often shows us whats ideal and whats best are not the same thing.

Free range without adequate protection does often = free meal. Please don't lump all free rangers in this category. There are many of us that utilize LGDs and never have a mishap such as this. The posts you are seeing are from those who love the thought of a free ranged flock but don't use any kind of predator deterrent.

I've free ranged for years....and I have two lethal dogs in my yard who would never let something like this happen. The coyotes came near the other night...I could hear them howl. Then I hear my younger dog howl right back....he loves to sing with the pack. And the pack never comes here~no easy meals here.

It does no good to have dogs that live with you and spread their scent and feces/pee over the territory...and then cuddle up next to you in the bed each night. They need to be outside at all times...ever vigilant and ever threatening.

I agree that people who treat chickens like pets and don't prepare for all eventualities should not free range...it takes experience to do it correctly.​

 

[redhen]

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Because many people dont like to keep their animals (yes, even chickens).. in small dirt and wire pens 24/7...
Most chicken runs/pens are not really big enough.. even if the books say they are... they're not..
Just like i wouldnt keep my dog in a small dog kennel all day long for its entire life... i wont do that to a chicken either.
everyone is entitled to raise their chickens how THEY feel is best...
So... i wont condemn or judge you for keeping your chickens in a pen... and you shouldnt judge others for letting their chickens have some freedom to be chickens and scratch in the grass and just be chickens.
Sound fair to you?

 

[mmaddie's mom]

Quote:
Because many people dont like to keep their animals (yes, even chickens).. in small dirt and wire pens 24/7...
Most chicken runs/pens are not really big enough.. even if the books say they are... they're not..
Just like i wouldnt keep my dog in a small dog kennel all day long for its entire life... i wont do that to a chicken either.
everyone is entitled to raise their chickens how THEY feel is best...
So... i wont condemn or judge you for keeping your chickens in a pen... and you shouldnt judge others for letting their chickens have some freedom to be chickens and scratch in the grass and just be chickens.
Sound fair to you?

OK, I am the original poster here and I was going to just let this go after I received some helpful tips and sympathy from other BYCers but it looks like I need to have my final say, just to clarify.

First, I agree with what redhen has said above... so this is something that all of us will have to just agree to disagree about.

Second, although I have not been on BYC for very long, I HAVE had chickens for quite a while... free-ranging during the day and securely closed in the pen at night. I am neither inexperienced or naive... at this time of year I expect to lose several bird to the coyotes. The difference this year is that while the coyotes usually take younger birds (ones that I'm not so attached to), this year they took 4 of my older, core of the flock, birds in a very short period of time... birds who had names (not all my birds do)... birds that I had a relationship with. When I lose a bird to a predator, I am sad/disappointed... but this year I lost 4 of my "pet" (yes pet) birds in 3 weeks time and I was feeling a bit "heart-broken".

Third, I do take precautions to keep loses a a minimum... but the one thing that I can't do is tell my neighbor not to plant in the fields surrounding my house. He's a very good neighbor and I've talked about him on BYC before.

Fourth, I am a dog person, having raised, trained and shown German Shepherds for 40 years... My "old girl" right now does sleep in my bed with me. I would never keep a dog totally outside just to protect my livestock. I very much enjoy my birds, but my dog/dogs are my heart and I would never risk a dog for a chicken. You may do this and that is just fine with me... your dog, your livestock, your life.

Now, to conclude... we already had plans (for next Spring) in mind to move and enlarge our pen so that the birds could have more room. I will probably keep the flock in at times when we are having problems of this sort... but I will continue to free-range... and continue to protect my bird to the best of my ability... AND to expect some loses.

Guys and girls... there are ways to get your thoughts and ideas across without kicking someone who is already down... take your que from the OP and think about how you would feel... respond accordingly.

I'd like to end on a happy note... yesterday I came home from work to find 9 beautiful babies under a hen that I had given up on... these chicks are the babies of my lost Head Roo, Miracle! I'm so glad that I have these last little reminders of him!

Thanks,
diana