help! Aussie puppy fear biting, afraid it will become a problem

[TC]

Quote:
That was me!! A dog that is biting out of fear agression wont bite just because, he/she has to "feel" threatened. Sitting around in a bunch of chairs talking isn't gonna make you have a crazy psycho dog wanting to bite everyone, pushing the dog into a corner, will.

If you let him/her come up to the person, instead of the person patting or petting the dog (no talking either) just take a piece of hotdog and continue about their business, the dog will figure it out on their own. "Hey, that was cool, lets try that again!" Soon, talking, then maybe a rub on the chest (NOT the head) will follow. It worked for my rottweiler, who at 80ish lbs is not a small dog. Tis man is a world class trainer and has taken several dogs to world championship shows.

I was doing the scruff thng and such, soon Jess was scared of me, and I wanted him to respect me and my family not be scared of us! Good luck with your dog. I hope what ever method you choose works for you.

 

[walkswithdog]

What the Border Collie lady said is on track with how it would be handled here.

All dogs are not the same and cannot be disciplined the same.

Puppies ARE NOT dogs. Puppies are puppies and they DO have a normal fear period. The brighter the dog, the longer the fear period can last.

Tethering a pup to you offers the advantages of leadership and observation, something ALL puppies benefit from.

Roll the wrong puppy, force the wrong puppy, poke the wrong puppy in the eye and you will create a dog that remembers forever that lesson, and will indeed become a permanently defensive dog. Especially with herders and LGDS. And once a herder or LGD distrusts you, getting it back is a long process. They are not labradors or mastiffs, who forgive easily.

Your job as pack leader is to control the situations the pup is in. Tethering at all times, except off leash to play in a fenced area, helps you control her and her interactions with OTHERS.

You also need to control the others, if she DOES NOT WANT attention, MAKE other people ignore her. She will not ever come around if every situation with new people is fraught with danger (rolling, pinning, tight leash, stress, pain, fear).

She will learn to accept people once they present no threat. Very few dogs or puppies growl and lunge at people IGNORING them. All dogs DO NOT want or NEED the attention of other people and shouldn't HAVE to put up with it.

I agree whole heartedly with all the advice to turn her attention solely to you. ON or OFF property her sole leadership should be you, her focus should be your attitude and your goals. To that end you have to teach her INDOORS and OUTDOORS of your home, several key ideas.

To LOOK directly into your face/eyes on Command. Here that command is WATCH ME. Some of my students used "LOOK". It's easy to start teaching - pup's eyes or a dogs' eyes naturally follow the course of a good treat from their NOSE to your FOREHEAD - good dog, good watch ME. Then reward.

I work on that til I can get 1-3 minutes of focused attention indoors or out.

You also work on sit indoors and outdoors until they will stay for 3 min on sit and 15 on down.

Walk on a loose leash falls in there. I don't teach heel unless it has an application for that particular dog.

With those four things you ought to be able to go anywhere and orient the dog to YOU instead of what is around them.

If someone comes up or comes near to a dog that does not want attention, I say watch me. The dog looks AT ME. Sit. GOOD DOG and SEND THE PEOPLE AWAY. If you PROTECT the dog while it is afraid it will learn that YOU control the situation, you are her leader, you keep her SAFE. In time she will likely trust people and you can add, strangers offering or tossing favorite bits of cookie, then ignoring her. Then work up to engaging her as she learns trust.

Forcing the wrong dog or pup will get someone often several someone's bitten.

Respect the dog as an individual. Allow the dog to learn trust. TEACH trust. BE TRUSTWORTHY. I don't like crowds, don't like a LOT of people and don't want everyone to hug me. There are dogs like that too. You find them often in the herding and guardian breeds.

The smarter the dog, the better a leader and judge of character - yours, the dog's and other people's.

Leadership is not about pain or force. It's about thought, preparation, teaching, and trust.

Some dogs will accept a level of force and pain that many others will not. Some will just roll over. The problem is most owners don't have the background to tell which is which. People get bitten. Dogs end up fearful or defensive for life.

Puppies need to be taught, not hurt or frightened. Trust is something you teach with each gesture, each situation. Are you a good leader? Are you prepared? Did you do the lifework/homework/training before you put the pup in a situation it felt unsafe in?

They are not born understanding us. They are not all equal. They can not all be handled the same way.

Tethering, crating, NILIF (nothing in life is free) are all good things for training dogs.

We are their teachers, they see the world first through our handling of them. Imagine your world view if you were poked in the eye to teach you. If every time you became afraid and showed it someone threw you to the ground and pinned you.

Control things like a leader should. Teach FOCUS on you. If the pup is watching your face and cooperating with sit or down or walk with you or looking at a cookie or toy, she's NOT stressing about people or things around her.

Punishment is for a thoroughly taught dog who is ignoring a well taught command. Not for newbies who are fearful or defensive or just freaked out.

Leashes help prevent mistakes. Tethering is a pain in the ass but it CONTROLS her environment and prevents permanent mistakes. Crate her when you can't tether her.

Slow down she obviously needs some time to think about all this. Make people leave her alone. Let her calm down. Teach her to rely on you.

Respect who she is, what she needs. Yes, prevent mouthing, you can gag her with a finger if she mouths you or roll her lips in between her teeth - after all she controls her bite force and where her mouth goes. She determines if she is corrected or not.

Actually there's a book on training that I hugely recommmend though it's dated and hard to find at times. Play Training Your Dog, by Patricia Burnham. It's about creating a rag or tug dog and it's uses. Tug can be played by all dogs IF there are rules and they are followed by everyone who works the dog. It is a game often loved by otherwise shy and hard to focus or reward dogs. It teaches a lot of confidence and self control, both valuable with a thinking breed. I'd look it up if I were you. Dogwise . com probably still has it available.

You hurried her, you rushed her, yes she made mistakes, so did you. Time to rebuild from the ground up. This is a puppy, not a dog, you have time. Slow the world down, this isn't a typical puppy and you need to see her as she is.

Set her up for success, control what she's faced with and trust will come. Right now think of her world as a spinning wheel on it's side. You and she are both on that wheel. You in the middle, she on the wheel. The more that is happening, the more stimulation, the FASTER that wheel spins for her. The faster it spins the further from you and her own self control she gets. If it goes fast enough, long enough, then she bites.

You have to be aware of what moves her "wheel". You're the teacher, you're her center, you're there to help her learn to control herself.

You got bit when the wheel went wayyyy too fast. That's actually hugely common with herders.

Body posture (yours or other people's), sound, motion, play, thrown things, all represent things that can spin a dog's wheels.

Add food guarding or toy possession, a lack of training and a tendency to want everything and you have a very quickly spinning wheel, not an aggressive dog.

She's normal, if sensitive. Slow down the world, be trustworthy, be clear, set limits, make rules, be consistent, protect her. You are her leader, her person, all her joy, don't be the basis of her fears.

Herders are amazing special animals, it's why I've been in herding breed rescue for more than a decade. But all dogs are amazing. Each approaches the world in it's own way, with it's own view and desires.

After working with hundreds, I can tell you some are easier, some are harder, but if you're trustworthy, if you notice what they are, what they need, how they learn, then you can get through to the majority.

Be thoughtful first, be fair, be firm, be kind. Being a good leader is all about using your brain. Thinking is what we are supposed to be better at than they are. We need to do that before we use force or pain.

Good luck.

 

[Just a Country Girl]

Well Said!!!!

 

[redhen]

i would never, never have a dog that didnt respect ALL people enough to let them pet them...to me, its a chance of someone getting bit.(any stranger can pet my dogs...and i would not have it any other way...)..IMO, a dog needs to respect ALL humans..not just me...BUT, they do need to know, that I call the shots...my dogs DO look at me for direction in certain situations...i NEVER let my dogs be disrespectful to humans!!...i dont let them make agressive barks/growls to strangers...i stop them and correct them right away!...they need to know that I handle all the strangers..not them.(because i DO NOT want guard dogs..)...if you let a dog think they can pick and choose what humans they allow...its a bad thing IMO...and there is a chance for biting in that...for me, my main goal with MY dogs is super friendly dogs..that dont fear ANY humans...sure they will bark when people come to the door to alert us.(and thats fine....)..but..can anyone walk in my house? yup! and they dont ever have to worry about getting bit....i know some people want their dogs to be protective....i dont! no way! IMO, thats giving a dog permission to bite a person...how do you know that a dog will ALWAYS make the right choice in who they bite? its not a risk i will take, i let strangers pet my dogs...i let them give them treats. works for me...i dont let my dogs choose..i am the one who chooses..

 

[Cara]

I'm with redhen. God forbid if my dogs got lost, the last thing I want to worry about is nobody being able to catch them or them biting a stranger, which is a death sentence.

 

[mainchick]

it happens all the time at my shelter! We get a dog in that "was great" with the family, but is a menace to the world! A fear biter will get a death sentence in most shelters. It starts with respect for owners, and what the owner respects, the dog needs to respect. SOCIALIZATION is key. Check out ian dunbar's "before and after you get your puppy"

 

[Cetawin]

I agree with both redhen and walkswithdog a balance of both is what generally works best for me.

My dogs and wolves are always socialized to other animals and people. They are taught to allow petting, food removal and basic manners for others however they will not take treats or food from someone outside my household.

This is a bad thing if one of them were ever to have gotten or ever does get lost because they will not eat for anyone else. But, I have lost wolves and a dog to cruel individuals poisoning them by putting poison and such on food and feeding it to them when I was not around.

I also train all of them commands in another language. To say sit or stay to one of them will get no response because they do not know the words. If you speak german, japanese or tsalagi you are good to go.

Bearing in mind, I am home 24/7 or they are in their kennels if I am away from home, they never run loose or allowed to wander. So my method works for me.

I have very rarely had to use physical restraint or scruffing but I have had to do it. It depends on the dog.

Your girl is not a fear biter ... what is causing her fear? That you will take away her food? Are you feeding her enough and often enough for a puppy her age? Is another animal eating her food ro taking it from her?Look for the cause of the problem to have made her change. My opinion is that she is an alpha personality and is asserting her dominance for her food and her wants. Nip it in the bud immediately. Use harsh tone, crating and ignoring. If that fails, when she growls, grabs her by the scruff shake her (not hard but enough to get her attention and focus on you)with a firm harsh "NO" and repeat. If it means restraining her until she listens and obeys...so be it. You are doing her no justice by allowing her behavior.

The type of animal you are describing with bite and serious injury someone one day and it will not be her fault when it happens....that blame will lie with you. You must teach her proper behavior or give her to someone who will. It is just that simple and there are no options. Do or do not...you must decide.

I am editing to add this: Barking and growling must be controlled by your foir sure. For example, I do not scold mine for barking or growling when someone is in the yard or knocking on the door. they are doing what they are here to do...alerting me to something/someone strange outside. However, when I approach the door or say "Enough" they zip it. they know the word "Enough" means to stop whatever they are doing. If it is play, barking, growling or in my new one's case "talking"...they stop. That is their cue. I always tell them "good job" when they bark or growl and something/someone is outside.

My new Great Pyrenees/Labrador puppy who is only 5 months old, barks or growls and when I get to the door and said Good Job he sits. When I open the door, he backs up three or four feet and sits again. It took some time to teach him but it was not that hard. Just stay consistent, firm and praise/reward correct behavior on their part.

Good luck with her.

 

[mamaKate]

I have a Great Dane/ Aussie mix who was rescued from a really rotten situation at 12 weeks old. She had serious fear issues. She was never agressive with me or the kids she was raised with, and is now fully trustworthy when she is with me or my sons. I would not, however, consider leaving her unsupervised with an unfamiliar child. If you're planning children at some future date, are you willing to risk their safety on this dog's stability? So many people have given excellent advice. With proper training I'm sure she can be a marvelous dog for YOU- but I'm not so sure about making her safe for kids that are introduced after she's grown. All success-and I hope whatever choice you make works out well.

 

[walkswithdog]

I was talking about the TRAINING and DESENSITIZING of a PUPPY. Not the end conduct of an adult dog, thoroughly trained, thoroughly taught.

I trained service dogs. Totally bomb-proof, completely social animals. But they don't all start that way, they certainly had fear periods.

How you train a puppy is not how you handle a trained dog. Of course the goal for the trained animal is that of a social and safe dog in all conditions. But to ignore a sensitive puppy, an over-reactive puppy's nature is to cause what can become permanent problems.

Force has repercussions when used on the young. Anyone can come in my home, handle my dogs. My vets love my shepherds though they worry about the shepherds of their other clients. They're amazed at all of our dogs who show up friendly and well socialized and do not offer to throw a fit at the vet, regardless of the procedure. They see the dogs we bring in as rescues, and how they end up, leash trained social, ready for the world.

They don't come to us like that, we build it. But we build it on trust. On fairness, on a foundation of training and an understanding that each is different.

My dogs are disciplined. Some of my dogs work in public, in very weird situations and remain calm. They are corrected if they blow off a command. But punishment is for after I have thoroughly trained the dog, not when I am TEACHING it what I expect.

My dogs have been lifted by emergency personnel, ridden in vehicles with sirens, been in ERs and restaurants, on amusement rides, in amusement parks (omg the children need handlers).

I didn't have to roll them or hurt them to get that. Without trust the dog does NOT go on the Haunted House ride with you, or jump in the boat on It's a small world. Or stay sane on the Pirates of the Caribbean. Or go up an escalator, or ride in a glass elevator. Or sit when some screaming insane homeless woman beats her with a shopping bag.

The real world is an ugly place, a strange place. A confident dog does well. One made distrustful by inappropriate force does not do well, often.

TEACH before you punish, desensitize before you overload a sensitive dog. Build a foundation in steps, like a pyramid. The more the dog knows before you take the next more scary step, the better. The more you teach, the greater the trust, the more the dog can do and will do.

But protect a puppy. With your presence, your thought, your planning. If you avoid mistakes the dog never learns to repeat them. Avoiding errors is easier than fixing what happens when a puppy makes a serious error, because they DO remember.

 

[sandypaws]

puppies do normally go through several "fear" periods before they reach 1 year old.. during those times they need cofidence and tons of socialization... training classes is a great place to start.. take them everywhere you are legally allowed to take them.. drag that puppy eveywhere with you.. reward them when they are CALM,, do not reward fearful behavior, ignore it..
but with a fear biter or aggresive puppy, do not let them put their mouths on you EVER!!!! NO "biting" games at all...
and it does not matter if it is a puppy or an adult dog, if it is aggressive or bites you , you need to correct the behavior as soon as it happens.. i will usually scruff and toss them on their backs and yell "growl" at them, do not let them to their feet untill they RELAX and submit... try doing this with a full adult male akita,, i have....
EVERYDOG IS DIFFERENT.. some dont need a big correction,, but some DO!! some breeds are softies, you could scare them and create a fear biter.. you need to know the dog you are working with..
i do not correct my poodles, the same way i correct my akitas or terriers... but if "bad" my poodles will still get corrected..

alot of good advise here.......