Help!!! Chukar eggs not hatching but can hear them??

[barra060]

You shouldn't have the thermometer probe be in contact with an egg as this will throw off the actual air temp. For still air incubators its usually recommended to have the temp set at 101 measured at just above the egg, and 99.5-100 for forced air incubators measured below the egg. The infrared thermometer was how I discovered the temperature difference between an incubating egg and the air temp. I hit 105 before in the bator, but the core temp of the egg was still hovering around 97.5. It helped me to better understand the incubation process. The eggshell is an insulator and will allow fluctuations in temp to not affect the growth process as much. This might help you better understand how temperature affects incubation: http://www.brinsea.com/customerservice/poweroff.html

 

[EriRojas]

I never said to have the probe in contact with the egg, I simply said to put it in at the Same level the other eggs are at and the easiest way of doing that is by taking a quail egg out of the tray and setting the probe there. We've done many research projects with incubation. Higher temperatures kill birds, it causes problems in their legs/toes and exposed Brains and such. Also higher temperatures causes the eggs to hatch early. Which is not always the best thing. An infrared thermometer is a waist, we hatch hundreds of eggs if not thousands a year at the college I go to, we have been doing it for years and the perfect temperature and the best results we have gotten is by placing the incubators at 99.5-100 F. Also foster farms does the same thing. They even have alarms in their hatchery at Ellenwood hatchery that go off in all the facility if the temperature goes up a degree. Because from their research they have learned that it high temperatures can harm embryonic development. You don't need to be checking the internal temperature of an egg. Unless you want to do a science project on it or something because that is just a waist of time. Also from the pictures I saw your incubator and I use to have that same incubator a while back, it was the first I ever got, compared to a real forced air incubator I still consider it a still air. The fan hardly creates any air circulation in the incubator. So I would try to adjust it at 99.5 or 100 and make sure it stays at that temperature. That way they will have a higher hatch rate. Also don't forget about your humidity.

 

[barra060]

Perhaps you and I are off to a bad start.

I never stated that you suggested any placement of the temp probe. The o.p. stated she placed the probe on top of the egg, which is not recommended as it will give an incorrect reading as to what is the ambient air temperature in the bator.

While I might be a novice to animal husbandry, my background was as an engineer for NASA, testing and certifying flight hardware for use on the shuttle. I quit that career several years ago and switched to medicine. The quality of instrumentation in most of the incubators I've seen are archaic in design when it comes to temp and humidity control so I would guess that only the universities and major hatcheries can afford or will spend the 500+ for a quality hatcher. Most of us see this as a hobby and can't justify the cost, so we buy the styrofoam and wafer bator (which I personally think is way overpriced). I don't argue with your point that, over many years, 99 or 100 is the ideal temp. But there are two point I am trying to make.

One is that this is not what the egg temp will be at during incubation. Maybe I haven't read enough literature but I can't find anything that says what is the actual internal temp of the egg supposed to be for optimal development, or what it is for that matter. MSU gives incubator temps for each breed of bird, and its either 99 or 100 for a forced air incubator. Sorry, I have to question why because of my next point.

My second point is that the accuracy of most thermometers have to be calibrated against a standard to ensure it gives an accurate reading, which they are not. Digital thermometers that we use to check for fever have a narrow bandwidth for measurement (90-110 deg F). That allows the probe and sampling to be very accurate for a reasonable price. The digital thermometers used in bators have a broad range (0-150 deg F) so accuracy to the 0.5 degree IMHO is not obtainable. In order to accurately read to 0.5 deg F you have to measure to 0.05 deg F. I really dont think that a thermometer made for less than a buck in another country and sold here for 20 is really that accurate. I placed in my bator three of the humidity and thermometer sensors. When placed next to each other they each gave a different reading. I took them out and saw he same thing. I even had a "back-up" one that had a separate probe. Same thing. If you use a digital thermometer, calibrate it against an alcohol or mercury bulb. Same thing with a hygrometer.

While you might think that the infrared thermometer is a waste (not waist like you spelled, sorry a pet peeve of mine), I think it can be useful as it will give a quick reading of the temp and can find hot/cool spots in the bator very quickly. Infrareds don't have a thermocouple waiting for an electron to jump across differently heated metals, so as long as it was made right, it should have an accurate reading. I would think that could lead to a higher hatch rate if you can get all the eggs to the same temp consistently.

 

[EriRojas]

Perhaps you and I are off to a bad start.

I never stated that you suggested any placement of the temp probe. The o.p. stated she placed the probe on top of the egg, which is not recommended as it will give an incorrect reading as to what is the ambient air temperature in the bator.

While I might be a novice to animal husbandry, my background was as an engineer for NASA, testing and certifying flight hardware for use on the shuttle. I quit that career several years ago and switched to medicine. The quality of instrumentation in most of the incubators I've seen are archaic in design when it comes to temp and humidity control so I would guess that only the universities and major hatcheries can afford or will spend the 500+ for a quality hatcher. Most of us see this as a hobby and can't justify the cost, so we buy the styrofoam and wafer bator (which I personally think is way overpriced). I don't argue with your point that, over many years, 99 or 100 is the ideal temp. But there are two point I am trying to make.

One is that this is not what the egg temp will be at during incubation. Maybe I haven't read enough literature but I can't find anything that says what is the actual internal temp of the egg supposed to be for optimal development, or what it is for that matter. MSU gives incubator temps for each breed of bird, and its either 99 or 100 for a forced air incubator. Sorry, I have to question why because of my next point.

My second point is that the accuracy of most thermometers have to be calibrated against a standard to ensure it gives an accurate reading, which they are not. Digital thermometers that we use to check for fever have a narrow bandwidth for measurement (90-110 deg F). That allows the probe and sampling to be very accurate for a reasonable price. The digital thermometers used in bators have a broad range (0-150 deg F) so accuracy to the 0.5 degree IMHO is not obtainable. In order to accurately read to 0.5 deg F you have to measure to 0.05 deg F. I really dont think that a thermometer made for less than a buck in another country and sold here for 20 is really that accurate. I placed in my bator three of the humidity and thermometer sensors. When placed next to each other they each gave a different reading. I took them out and saw he same thing. I even had a "back-up" one that had a separate probe. Same thing. If you use a digital thermometer, calibrate it against an alcohol or mercury bulb. Same thing with a hygrometer.

While you might think that the infrared thermometer is a waste (not waist like you spelled, sorry a pet peeve of mine), I think it can be useful as it will give a quick reading of the temp and can find hot/cool spots in the bator very quickly. Infrareds don't have a thermocouple waiting for an electron to jump across differently heated metals, so as long as it was made right, it should have an accurate reading. I would think that could lead to a higher hatch rate if you can get all the eggs to the same temp consistently.

I understood your first part wrong.
And yeah that would give a wrong temperature reading.

the thing about using an infrared thermometer is that you would have to open the incubator up to check the incubator, which is not good for the embryos especially in the last P3 stage. Chukar Partridge's mortality rate increases dramatically on day 23 & 24, so it's suggested that you don't open your incubator untill 24 hours after the first chick hatched.

And using an infrared thermometer would mean that you would have to open it and close it every time. That by itself would give you a wrong temperature reading. Or am I wrong? I don't use infrared thermometers but I think it's the one they use for babies that they swipe them across their foreheads.

Digital thermometers are usually calibrated right, I've bought many and always have them reading te same temperature the alcohol thermometers read. I am going to PM you and maybe you can enlighten me on how these work and on your opinions and views on the infrared thermometer.

 

[barra060]

I replied to your pm, and I apologize if it's a bit long winded. I must be buying bad digital thermometers, because the one I have with a remote probe is saying it's over 105 in the bator, but the two sitting next to the eggs are showing around 99-100, the same as the thermostat. Go figure.

 

[becky1677]

 

[becky1677]

Can I put baby chukars with older chukars? I did separate the chukar an the quails but the chucker are now trying to jump over and fly over my divider. Quick little guys wow!! Could I put baby chukar outside in pin with adult chukar in few weeks? ???

 

[becky1677]

 

[EriRojas]

No you keep the chicks with only eachother and the adults with only adults. Mixing them is bad Biosecurity you will end up getting the chicks sick. You need to brood the chicks inside or keep them outside with a heat light.

 

[becky1677]

Thank you EriRojas you have been soooooo much help!!!!!!