Help!!! Does anyone know what this lump is protruding from my quail? Warning : semi graphic photos

[BillyBeans]

Good evening all,

We just started keeping quail, so fairly new to this all. We noticed this lump on the underside of one of our quail, just above her vent, or what I believe to be the vent. I have isolated her and kept her in a darker environment to slow egg production as I was worried she was egg bound, but this morning I found an egg in her penthouse. She’s eating, drinking and pooping normally. The mass is soft-ish but sorta lumpy. It’s a little scabby and raw, so we soaked her in Epsom salt for a 10-15 min to sooth and help healing. It kind of pushed back in if I gently worked it, but I didn’t want to push too far, and it didn’t really stay in, so I’ve stopped doing that. But I had some thoughts it was a prolapse? But she’s still pooping fine and she laid an egg. So I’m a little stumped. I am concerned time is of the essence. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all!

 

[Nabiki]

That looks like an infection, and a bad one. If you try antibiotic ointment, make sure it doesn't contain pain killer. The pain killers used in those are usually toxic to birds.

Personally, I would either be looking for a vet or culling.

 

[BillyBeans]

That looks like an infection, and a bad one. If you try antibiotic ointment, make sure it doesn't contain pain killer. The pain killers used in those are usually toxic to birds.

Personally, I would either be looking for a vet or culling.

Thank you for the info. I have been thinking about culling, and what she’s going through. But she’s really quite happy and active looking. Unfortunately this is a backyard operation, a vets opinion would be valuable, but I don’t quite have the money to get anything done professionally.

 

[Susan Skylark]

She’ll lay for several days until the eggs in her system already in production run out, keeping her with less than 8 hours a day of light will shut down egg production. My guess would be a mild prolapse with secondary necrosis/infection. A topical antibiotic won’t hurt anything but probably won’t do too much either, the tissue that is supposed to be inside the bird is now exposed to air, has lost some of its blood supply, and the combo of air, nutrients and dead tissue makes it a bacterial paradise. Good nursing care and an incredible amount of patience may save the bird. As she’s feeling good, there isn’t an internal infection (peritonitis) yet so she has a chance. The tissue can’t be replaced/won’t stay in so it will have to die and slough off. In pigs and cattle with an unfixable prolapse you can place a tube in the rectum and use a castrating band to hold it in place. The animal poops through the tube while the prolapsed tissue dies and the rectum heals. You can’t do that in a bird. Culling May still be your best bet if you don’t have the time or patience, but keep her in the dark to stop laying, soak the infected tissue in warm water for 5 minutes daily, scrub off scabs, dirt, etc. keep her in clean dry bedding with good access to feed and water, if you can keep a buddy with her who won’t peck at it, that is even better. Also keep away from flies, you don’t need fly strike as well. You can apply topical antibacterial ointment as well but keeping it clean and dry and removing dead tissue will be most important. This will take 4-8 weeks and you might just want to keep her not laying indefinitely as once they prolapse they can do it again or as the wound heals it may scar down and make egg laying difficult.

 

[BillyBeans]

She’ll lay for several days until the eggs in her system already in production run out, keeping her with less than 8 hours a day of light will shut down egg production. My guess would be a mild prolapse with secondary necrosis/infection. A topical antibiotic won’t hurt anything but probably won’t do too much either, the tissue that is supposed to be inside the bird is now exposed to air, has lost some of its blood supply, and the combo of air, nutrients and dead tissue makes it a bacterial paradise. Good nursing care and an incredible amount of patience may save the bird. As she’s feeling good, there isn’t an internal infection (peritonitis) yet so she has a chance. The tissue can’t be replaced/won’t stay in so it will have to die and slough off. In pigs and cattle with an unfixable prolapse you can place a tube in the rectum and use a castrating band to hold it in place. The animal poops through the tube while the prolapsed tissue dies and the rectum heals. You can’t do that in a bird. Culling May still be your best bet if you don’t have the time or patience, but keep her in the dark to stop laying, soak the infected tissue in warm water for 5 minutes daily, scrub off scabs, dirt, etc. keep her in clean dry bedding with good access to feed and water, if you can keep a buddy with her who won’t peck at it, that is even better. Also keep away from flies, you don’t need fly strike as well. You can apply topical antibacterial ointment as well but keeping it clean and dry and removing dead tissue will be most important. This will take 4-8 weeks and you might just want to keep her not laying indefinitely as once they prolapse they can do it again or as the wound heals it may scar down and make egg laying difficult.

Thank you for that advice. We have been keeping it as clean as possible, an epsom salt bath a day. We have the time, and patience, so hopfully she pulls through. Sorry, this may be an uneducated question, but how do i indefinitely stop her from laying? Would it be restricted access from light for the rest of her time? I kept a sheet over her house outside, but she still laid a brown very soft egg today. I put up a more permanent light block, and see if that slows it down.

I think I understand this all, but one things I’m struggling to understand is, this mass poking out isn’t coming from her rectum I don’t believe, there is no hole in it, and she’s pooping normally. After this tissue gets cleaned up and un-scabbed is the idea that I would want to try to push it back in because it’s possibly a prolapse? Or will she live with this the rest of her days? Thank you for your time and reply!

 

[Nabiki]

This doesn't look like prolapse to me. As you said, it's not coming from her cloaca, but rather on her belly.

To answer your question about laying, if she never gets more than 12 hours of light per day, she is going to lay less. If I don't want a hen to lay, I will usually restrict them to about 8 hours of light per day. I think of this as a temporary solution, but I supposed you could do it long term. I don't know how that would work, though.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

This doesn't look like prolapse to me. As you said, it's not coming from her cloaca, but rather on her belly.

To answer your question about laying, if she never gets more than 12 hours of light per day, she is going to lay less. If I don't want a hen to lay, I will usually restrict them to about 8 hours of light per day. I think of this as a temporary solution, but I supposed you could do it long term. I don't know how that would work, though.

I think I understand this all, but one things I’m struggling to understand is, this mass poking out isn’t coming from her rectum I don’t believe, there is no hole in it, and she’s pooping normally. After this tissue gets cleaned up and un-scabbed is the idea that I would want to try to push it back in because it’s possibly a prolapse?

I agree, it does not look like a prolapse, we can see the intact healthy vent in the photo (circled), this is on the abdomen.
Possibly a cyst or abscess. For some reason, hernia also comes to mind.

Either way, if not culling, then the area needs to be kept clean and ointment applied. No, don't try to push back in. See if the area starts to heal and shrink with you caring for it like a wound.

Does it feel hard or soft/fluid filled?

 

[BillyBeans]

I agree, it does not look like a prolapse, we can see the intact healthy vent in the photo (circled), this is on the abdomen.
Possibly a cyst or abscess. For some reason, hernia also comes to mind.

Either way, if not culling, then the area needs to be kept clean and ointment applied. No, don't try to push back in. See if the area starts to heal and shrink with you caring for it like a wound.

Does it feel hard or soft/fluid filled?

View attachment 4222004

Thank you for the advice. Yeah, her vent is all good, she’s doing everything normally. I guess I’m not locking down the light too well, because she’s still laying. I will try a big piece of plywood over the front of the cage, not just the makeshift sheet thing we had going. She seems to be laying just fine though, but I’ve never seen her actually lay, but she’s always chipper and running around each morning and evening. In the last 48hrs, she’s laid 4 eggs, the first 2 got me worried, one was all brown and soft, the other was looking ok, but had a soft spot on the top, then today’s 2 were perfectly fine eggs. I don’t know if that’s a sign of anything more being wrong. But I’m going to do a better job of cutting out the light incase this is stressing her out? I feel like her energy would be best used healing, if that’s how this works. But maybe she’s happier laying and having light if her eggs are ok?

As for the infection part, it hard to explain in terms of softness or hardness, it’s definitely not all a uniform hardness, it feels like it’s got lumps, maybe 2-3 in there. It’s softer in some spots. Mostly “under” the lump, closer to her vent it’s soft. But the hard spots could be due to scabbing. She’s still getting soaked daily, I’ve been putting an ointment on it, but also have Red-Kote (I think is the name) which I believe is more suitable for birds, since I picked it up at a chicken feed store. Would anyone suggest I use that?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Some folks do use Red Kote, if that's what you have, use it. See if the scabs heal up.

Personally, if she's able to lay eggs and is moving about, then I wouldn't worry about trying to stop production. That may be harder on her than just letting her natural cycle play out.

The mass, it's hard to know what that is. Some birds get feather cysts or abscesses. A vet can access the lump more effectively, but often vet care is not available or very expensive.

Since you aren't culling, keep her bedding clean and dry, treat the wound/scabs and let her be happy eating and running about normally. Or that's what I'd do.

Is she by herself?

 

[BillyBeans]

Some folks do use Red Kote, if that's what you have, use it. See if the scabs heal up.

Personally, if she's able to lay eggs and is moving about, then I wouldn't worry about trying to stop production. That may be harder on her than just letting her natural cycle play out.

The mass, it's hard to know what that is. Some birds get feather cysts or abscesses. A vet can access the lump more effectively, but often vet care is not available or very expensive.

Since you aren't culling, keep her bedding clean and dry, treat the wound/scabs and let her be happy eating and running about normally. Or that's what I'd do.

Is she by herself?

Thank you! Yep! She’s running around and having a decent time it looks like. I’ll hold off on the restriction of light, if she does keep up the healing, it will be darker soon for longer as winter approaches and that might happen the natural way.

For now, yes, she is on her own. I also have one bird who is by herself because every time I try to reintroduce her, she gets picked on. But she was getting picked on by the one who currently has this mass, so I don’t know how I feel about putting them together. But it might be worth a try.