Help find what is wrong with pea suddenly watery white stool & not energetic.

[casportpony]

The meds can work really fast if caught soon enough.

-Kathy

 

[Pavomuticus]

Could easily be an Enteritis, (gut infection) easily brought on by stress, the dropping are just showing that the bird has not eaten in the last 24 hours and has no solid material passing through the gut. So definitely a sign something has not been right however unless you have a history of blackhead, could easily be an enteritis which won't always be helped by metrondazole. Giving a general oral antibiotic and a re-hydration salts- the bird is likely to be dehydrated (make sure they are avian salts, human salts are the wrong sort) will help with a bacterial infection followed by a pro-biotic . Don't think an enteritis is mild either it can kill a apparently healthy bird in less that 24 hours with little weight loss or signs.
Enteritis are easily picked up from the environment, and can effect a single bird in a group and no others and that's including birds in reasonably high bio-secure conditions.
Even if it is blackhead, give antibiotics as well, in chickens with blackhead plenty of mortality is by secondary bacterial infection as the blackhead protozoa damages the gut lining, and opens the bird to secondary infection which in its weakened state will kill them.
So, dose with metrondazole but also an anti-biotic, generally penicillin based.

 

[casportpony]

Could easily be an Enteritis, (gut infection) easily brought on by stress, the dropping are just showing that the bird has not eaten in the last 24 hours and has no solid material passing through the gut. So definitely a sign something has not been right however unless you have a history of blackhead, could easily be an enteritis which won't always be helped by metrondazole. Giving a general oral antibiotic and a re-hydration salts- the bird is likely to be dehydrated (make sure they are avian salts, human salts are the wrong sort) will help with a bacterial infection followed by a pro-biotic . Don't think an enteritis is mild either it can kill a apparently healthy bird in less that 24 hours with little weight loss or signs.
Enteritis are easily picked up from the environment, and can effect a single bird in a group and no others and that's including birds in reasonably high bio-secure conditions.
Even if it is blackhead, give antibiotics as well, in chickens with blackhead plenty of mortality is by secondary bacterial infection as the blackhead protozoa damages the gut lining, and opens the bird to secondary infection which in its weakened state will kill them.
So, dose with metrondazole but also an anti-biotic, generally penicillin based.

I usually give Clavamox or Baytril with metronidazole if I suspect a secondary infection.

The bird pictured below was brought to me, but not in time. He had Blackhead and probably a secondary e.Coli infection, and I'm pretty sure that's what killed him.

Here are the necropsy pictures from one of the peacocks.



Liver and cecal pouches


Contents of cecal pouch - black liquid poop, NOT normal!


Inside of cecal pouch




Liver with the blackhead spots and I think the black edges are necrotic

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

FYI, they can also get secondary respirators infections, bacterial and/or fungal.

-Kathy

 

[Pavomuticus]

Baytril is a bit overkill surely, its one of the last and most potent anti-bacterials we have left in use for human or animal medicine and should only be used as a last resort after a consultation with a vet, in fact I'm been led to believe Baytril is not always the most appropriate choice for intestinal action. Also the symptoms this bird is showing could have any of a number of causes not simply blackhead so unless you have a history of blackhead within your flock, it is quite probable it had other causes, which may need addressing,

Also here in the UK we don't have access to metronidazole as it has been banned for the use in poultry, and Baytril is only available on a case by case basis under prescription. In fact I've done some quick research and I believe the use of Baytril in poultry was banned in the USA by the FDA in 2005 and the use of metronidazole had been banned even longer due to the increased risk of cancer in humans from eating meat of animals treated with it. This is why you are using fish tablets as you can't get Emtryl (metronidazole) for poultry any longer. It is something to consider especially if you plan on dosing all your flock, the government will probably overlook a single peacock treated on a one off basis that will never be eaten but be careful if dosing a lot of poultry especially if odd chooks end up in the pot or sold on- that's changing the ball game both for your own health and others.

PS. In light of the legal information, in the case of blackhead I would suggest antibiotics to treat secondary infection( metronidazole be at your own discretion) and longer term environmental control may be the best option with vigorous worming, separation of peafowl and chickens (main carriers of blackhead ), and if really bad restocking and re-siting of poultry or the use of raised wire floors to achieve drug free control.

I'm not trying to be an stupid about this, I think Kathy has given brilliant advice and is obviously extremely knowledge and dedicated to the health and welfare of the birds especially with regards blackhead treatment, it just seems most governments have technically made it illegal to directly treat blackhead and it is important that when we give a well researched answer that it also includes the legalities of the advice that is been given.

 

[casportpony]

I mean this in the nicest way possible as I know you did.

According to my *one* of my vets, Baytril would be the preferred drug to treat a gram negative infection, which I think e. Coli is. FWIW, any of my labs and necropsies done that had e.Coli listed, Baytril was one of the few that the e. Coli was sensitive to. Truthfully, I think Clavamox would work just as well, but it is sooooooooo much harder to get and *way* more expensive than a $25 bottle of 10% Baytril.

Yes, both metronidazole and Baytril are banned for use in food animals and should be used under the guidance of a veterinarian, which I always encourage people to do.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

@Pavomuticus , did you know that we can buy metronidazole at our local pet store? Petsmart sells something called API General Cure, but one should always check the ingredients as I think someone some with different medications listed.

-Kathy

 

[Yoda]

I mean this in the nicest way possible as I know you did.

According to my *one* of my vets, Baytril would be the preferred drug to treat a gram negative infection, which I think e. Coli is. FWIW, any of my labs and necropsies done that had e.Coli listed, Baytril was one of the few that the e. Coli was sensitive to. Truthfully, I think Clavamox would work just as well, but it is sooooooooo much harder to get and *way* more expensive than a $25 bottle of 10% Baytril.

Yes, both metronidazole and Baytril are banned for use in food animals and should be used under the guidance of a veterinarian, which I always encourage people to do.

-Kathy

Kathy, One of my Bird Vets came to this forum and read some of the posts. She said that you need to take the Vet books with a grain of salt. They do not give you the proper dosage but they do give you a range of dosage. With that said she stated that most of the off label doses have NOT been tested on the animal stated to give the dose to. This is why they have an A->G at the bottom of the page. She said there is not a lot of bird Vets who know peafowl so experience is the better dosage for your birds. She said that the breeders have been doing it for years and when in doubt do what they do. She said Baytril is not an everyday use drug and should be used as a last resort but even then she said she would try something different. Baytril kills gram negative AND gram positive bacteria. Clavamox, who told you to use that on peafowl? She cannot believe a Vet would tell you to use Baytril on your birds seeing it is banned in poultry. I told her I use it as a last resort and she told me she wouldn't use it then either. I did tell her that I use parrot Baytril and she said she wouldn't use it on parrots as well LOL. I told her I never used Clavamox on a bird and she said not to, something to do with an acid in it but I do not remember what it was cause I don't use it and you need a prescription for it. She told me that we both are right on things as well as wrong on some. LOL

 

[casportpony]

Do me a favor, ask your vet what she would use to treat an e. Coli infection. BTW, you can get the human version of Clavamox without a prescription.

Search for Augmentin for tropical fish.

-Kathy

 

[Yoda]

What are the doses on those I may have both of them but it is very hard getting to pick him up and I have no helpers.

I give mine a 1.5ml/cc and that's it and it should clear up the respiratory infection. The best time to catch him is at night time if he is penned. I grab mine and wrap him in a towel while holding the legs. Tie the legs together and he will just lay there for you. Do not uncover his head cause then he will try to get away

slowly move the towel up towards the head til the base of the neck is showing and gently grab a small clump of feathers and pull upward so you can see where the feathers meet the skin creating a triangle between the back and the base of the feathers and inject the needle into the triangle patch of skin without going through the other side and squeeze, you just gave your bird a shot of tylan 200

pull the towel back down over the back and then grab the bird and while holding the legs untie them and return the bird to his roost you are done.