Help me keep my hands out of the bator...

[shelleyd2008]

Quote:
HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS EVER.

WILL SEE THEM TEARING AROUND IN THE HATCHER 8 HRS AFTER THEY HATCH AND STILL WET, BUT NEVER SEEN THEM STUCK IN THE SHELL FROM HIGH HUMIDITY, HAVE SEEN THEM DROWN ENUTERO WITH HIGH HUMIDITY

I've had hatches where the humidity was in the 70's or so and had chicks that hatched out with so much 'goop' on them that their fluff wouldn't even 'fluff'. I don't have that problem with dry hatching.

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

Quote:
I take the racks out right before "lockdown" and put the eggs in an egg carton to hatch. Much less messy that way and no trapped/squished babies, either!

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

Quote:
HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS EVER.

WILL SEE THEM TEARING AROUND IN THE HATCHER 8 HRS AFTER THEY HATCH AND STILL WET, BUT NEVER SEEN THEM STUCK IN THE SHELL FROM HIGH HUMIDITY, HAVE SEEN THEM DROWN ENUTERO WITH HIGH HUMIDITY

I always figure the few that drowned is questionable as they were to weak for whatever reason to pick their way out of the shell. Well maybe I haven't seen actual drowning. Have seen dead chicks at about the time of lockdown though. Wouldn't want to carry on those genetics anyway in potential breeders.

Ok, these Whites are from my breeders sports. Remember he has been trying to breed out the Whites that keep popping up.
Well you all know I am pretty good at whining. So I whined to him about not getting enough Whites.

He called me up asked if I had an empty bator and would I like some eggs from Whites that he saved and bred together. Of course, I wanted all of them. But he didn't have many of these breeders, so I took every White egg from that pen that he had, I think. These are the babies from this breeding. 1st step of my breeding project I want to do.
And while I was at it I got more from the Manchurian Gold pen he had set up. You know I am a sucker for his Golds.
These are lighter than mine. Why? So I will need to set up a second breeding pen of Golds.
Then of course I had to have more J Browns from the main pens.

So, he had started down sizing for the winter and wasn't hatching anymore. So about half these eggs are past hatching or considered eating eggs by him and me. Got more babies than I figured I would. Bator is still going though, just in case.

I am seeing 2 different types of Whites. Yes, these are Texas A&M's, both types. His line has A&M's for certain. I see it in the J Browns in some of the feathering and especially in the meat. No way their size or that meat can be an English White. Remember I process at 6/7 weeks. 8 weeks is starting to get to old for what I am after. This is why I should do smaller hatches, so I don't have to process so many at once. Then we have the MG's coming into maturity, a few more years are needed to get rid of the striation in their meat though. So all these birds have the JB, MG and A&M White mixed into the cauldron. Need to work on size though.

This is why in the past I have asked so so many questions about size and meat and egg size. What I am seeing is not what everyone else talks about. And JJMR, my eggs are a good size by the time they are laying for just a few weeks. None of my birds are that old really.

Probably just my choice of breeders, I do cull heavier than anyone else I know. I have spent the past few years doing just that with my Sicilian Buttercups and have increased my flocks egg size and body size at an earlier age. They are ready to be passed to a breeder to work on body size. I don't have the room for multiple Roos for an extended period of time to go any further.

So I may just have the eye for it. I am hoping I have the eye to spot a difference in the sexes on the A&M WHites. With the Buttercups I know how many Roos and Hens I will have at hatch, but not till weeks later if I am not paying attention. They are not sex links.

So now I can really start looking at the Whites and see what I see for you. These birds are so intermixed that I may be able to spot something. Remember my slow to spot males. I know who they are now, they are the ones with recessive White from the A&M Whites that are not showing any White and are hiding that Range type sexing thing. Tried to trick me, they did, but I figured them out.

 

[joe125]

Quote:
HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS EVER.

WILL SEE THEM TEARING AROUND IN THE HATCHER 8 HRS AFTER THEY HATCH AND STILL WET, BUT NEVER SEEN THEM STUCK IN THE SHELL FROM HIGH HUMIDITY, HAVE SEEN THEM DROWN ENUTERO WITH HIGH HUMIDITY

I always figure the few that drowned is questionable as they were to weak for whatever reason to pick their way out of the shell. Well maybe I haven't seen actual drowning. Have seen dead chicks at about the time of lockdown though. Wouldn't want to carry on those genetics anyway in potential breeders.

Ok, these Whites are from my breeders sports. Remember he has been trying to breed out the Whites that keep popping up.
Well you all know I am pretty good at whining. So I whined to him about not getting enough Whites.

He called me up asked if I had an empty bator and would I like some eggs from Whites that he saved and bred together. Of course, I wanted all of them. But he didn't have many of these breeders, so I took every White egg from that pen that he had, I think. These are the babies from this breeding. 1st step of my breeding project I want to do.
And while I was at it I got more from the Manchurian Gold pen he had set up. You know I am a sucker for his Golds.
These are lighter than mine. Why? So I will need to set up a second breeding pen of Golds.
Then of course I had to have more J Browns from the main pens.

So, he had started down sizing for the winter and wasn't hatching anymore. So about half these eggs are past hatching or considered eating eggs by him and me. Got more babies than I figured I would. Bator is still going though, just in case.

I am seeing 2 different types of Whites. Yes, these are Texas A&M's, both types. His line has A&M's for certain. I see it in the J Browns in some of the feathering and especially in the meat. No way their size or that meat can be an English White. Remember I process at 6/7 weeks. 8 weeks is starting to get to old for what I am after. This is why I should do smaller hatches, so I don't have to process so many at once. Then we have the MG's coming into maturity, a few more years are needed to get rid of the striation in their meat though. So all these birds have the JB, MG and A&M White mixed into the cauldron. Need to work on size though.

This is why in the past I have asked so so many questions about size and meat and egg size. What I am seeing is not what everyone else talks about. And JJMR, my eggs are a good size by the time they are laying for just a few weeks. None of my birds are that old really.

Probably just my choice of breeders, I do cull heavier than anyone else I know. I have spent the past few years doing just that with my Sicilian Buttercups and have increased my flocks egg size and body size at an earlier age. They are ready to be passed to a breeder to work on body size. I don't have the room for multiple Roos for an extended period of time to go any further.

So I may just have the eye for it. I am hoping I have the eye to spot a difference in the sexes on the A&M WHites. With the Buttercups I know how many Roos and Hens I will have at hatch, but not till weeks later if I am not paying attention. They are not sex links.

So now I can really start looking at the Whites and see what I see for you. These birds are so intermixed that I may be able to spot something. Remember my slow to spot males. I know who they are now, they are the ones with recessive White from the A&M Whites that are not showing any White and are hiding that Range type sexing thing. Tried to trick me, they did, but I figured them out.

Looking at the "Whites" I would say yes. As far as having the mythical TA&M mobyquail.....I will say no.

The TA&M project ended way back in the late 60's. I was pooping my diapers back then and most of the folks on byc were not even thought of yet. What the heck would it take to shake "theoretical coturnix breeders" into real breeders in 2010?

This is where we belong....Today!!!

For all the TRUE A&M folks out there....Please PM me with egg cost+$40 S&H. I will buy your eggs, hatch and grow them out, then send 2nd generation eggs to 3rd parties for evaluation.

 

[Stellar]

Quote:
The Texas A&M strain is dead or never even existed. Depending on how you look at it. White coturnix come in 2 sizes, regular or jumbo. They do not come in any designer A&M package.

Why is this so hard for logical coturnix breeders to get a grip on?

Sorry...I know a guy that has the real deal....I'll shut up now.

The Texas A and M is basically (and this is what I was taught) an English White chosen for the weight, bred selectively by the size in hopes to be the next table bird. The strain is pretty much gone, yes. We still can call the larger English Whites that but They are basically Jumbo English Whites, kind of like the pharaohs and the Jumbo Brown...same bird just one bigger...makes sense??

As with Panda and dotted whites...those are just beginning names to what we have today. You can call your birds whatever you want but the real names are there and you can't change them. Pandas were the beginnings of the tuxedos and are long gone UNLESS you are starting your own strain of tuxedos and the first gen comes out with the weird blotches..same with the dotted whites...but in actuality they are unfavorable. I just got an offspring from two red tuxes, all red but the facial markings has white...do I go about calling it Red Panda???? LOL It sure looks like it and I can "name" it that way but it is in my red tuxedo line and it is called a red tuxedo and that is what it is.

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

Quote:
The Texas A&M strain is dead or never even existed. Depending on how you look at it. White coturnix come in 2 sizes, regular or jumbo. They do not come in any designer A&M package.

Why is this so hard for logical coturnix breeders to get a grip on?

Sorry...I know a guy that has the real deal....I'll shut up now.

The Texas A and M is basically (and this is what I was taught) an English White chosen for the weight, bred selectively by the size in hopes to be the next table bird. The strain is pretty much gone, yes. We still can call the larger English Whites that but They are basically Jumbo English Whites, kind of like the pharaohs and the Jumbo Brown...same bird just one bigger...makes sense??

As with Panda and dotted whites...those are just beginning names to what we have today. You can call your birds whatever you want but the real names are there and you can't change them. Pandas were the beginnings of the tuxedos and are long gone UNLESS you are starting your own strain of tuxedos and the first gen comes out with the weird blotches..same with the dotted whites...but in actuality they are unfavorable. I just got an offspring from two red tuxes, all red but the facial markings has white...do I go about calling it Red Panda???? LOL It sure looks like it and I can "name" it that way but it is in my red tuxedo line and it is called a red tuxedo and that is what it is.

This is where we disagree. Without the Jumbo Browns there would be no Jumbos. They were developed by Texas A&M, then the English Whites added to the mix. But what you are forgetting is the meat. The meat tells all. I have processed my extra MG's and seen their development (where the Texas A&M Jumbo Browns and Whites must have been many years ago, striated). Well the JB's have matured they aren't striated anymore and now I can find out why. So I am done asking questions about the meat. I know.

Sorry, but to me if a White comes from a Jumbo Brown Crossing its still a Texas A&M White. Doesn't matter if its not as large as they used to be. They are still larger than the pharoah size. I have yet to check their meat though.

But that's great if you don't believe there is such a thing as Texas A&M's, that's fine. We can keep em here. You don't believe, just tells me you don't have anything like them.

Here's some Theory for you. Take a bird, theorize what it could possibly become, then set out to do it. Send it out to breeders and cross your fingers that they keep breeding them for size and meat. Hope that they can further develope them and help them along. Hope that they have access to the proper feed for them, check to see what happens when they don't. Dr Thornberry you can have these JB's everynight for dinner. Just let me know. On the wings of an Angel.

You want another bird developed. How many years are you willing to wait. 10, 30, 50 years. All that Theory and Development takes time to breed and more time to mature. Would you know what to do with it when it comes out. Would you believe.

Panda & Dotted Whites - exactly. Yes I want to backbreed to a real Panda and a true Dotted White. Just for me. Hopefully I have what I want, to do so in the brooder. Maybe come Spring, I won't have to. In the mean time I will enjoy eating my Jumbo Browns, my Jumbo M Golds and my soon to be Jumbo Texas A&M Whites. Now I am not talking mobyquail, just Jumbos and what they were developed for, their meat.

I have access to the numbers to keep the diversification and genetic drift at bay, so I don't really need to trade/buy to try to find what I want. Oh, some of those True A&M breeders have contacted me.

 

[mhwc56]

Quote:
The Texas A&M strain is dead or never even existed. Depending on how you look at it. White coturnix come in 2 sizes, regular or jumbo. They do not come in any designer A&M package.

Why is this so hard for logical coturnix breeders to get a grip on?

Sorry...I know a guy that has the real deal....I'll shut up now.

The Texas A and M is basically (and this is what I was taught) an English White chosen for the weight, bred selectively by the size in hopes to be the next table bird. The strain is pretty much gone, yes. We still can call the larger English Whites that but They are basically Jumbo English Whites, kind of like the pharaohs and the Jumbo Brown...same bird just one bigger...makes sense??

As with Panda and dotted whites...those are just beginning names to what we have today. You can call your birds whatever you want but the real names are there and you can't change them. Pandas were the beginnings of the tuxedos and are long gone UNLESS you are starting your own strain of tuxedos and the first gen comes out with the weird blotches..same with the dotted whites...but in actuality they are unfavorable. I just got an offspring from two red tuxes, all red but the facial markings has white...do I go about calling it Red Panda???? LOL It sure looks like it and I can "name" it that way but it is in my red tuxedo line and it is called a red tuxedo and that is what it is.

WHY do the "Pandas " have to be "undesirable"... is it b/c it's really a poorly marked Tuxedo? Can it be singled out to become a "Red Panda" though or would the bloodlines/marking always eventually lead to a Tuxedo eventually?
WHY can't we have the Pandas AND the Tuxedoes AND the Dotted Whites?

 

[Stellar]

Oh I am just saying my "red Panda" is undesirable in my case because It came from Red Tuxedos and I like the white on the breast

It's cute and I will keep it since it has genes. When crossed with an English White the tuxedo look look more pronounced in the next generation. My "Texas A and M" original stock came from my university. The birds are large. But I raise for eggs primarily and genetic work.

 

[joe125]

Quote:
The Texas A&M strain is dead or never even existed. Depending on how you look at it. White coturnix come in 2 sizes, regular or jumbo. They do not come in any designer A&M package.

Why is this so hard for logical coturnix breeders to get a grip on?

Sorry...I know a guy that has the real deal....I'll shut up now.

The Texas A and M is basically (and this is what I was taught) an English White chosen for the weight, bred selectively by the size in hopes to be the next table bird. The strain is pretty much gone, yes. We still can call the larger English Whites that but They are basically Jumbo English Whites, kind of like the pharaohs and the Jumbo Brown...same bird just one bigger...makes sense??

As with Panda and dotted whites...those are just beginning names to what we have today. You can call your birds whatever you want but the real names are there and you can't change them. Pandas were the beginnings of the tuxedos and are long gone UNLESS you are starting your own strain of tuxedos and the first gen comes out with the weird blotches..same with the dotted whites...but in actuality they are unfavorable. I just got an offspring from two red tuxes, all red but the facial markings has white...do I go about calling it Red Panda???? LOL It sure looks like it and I can "name" it that way but it is in my red tuxedo line and it is called a red tuxedo and that is what it is.

Actully...IMHO, white coturnix are bred to be white birds (Mostly white), and that's why they keep devolving back to ity bitty English whites. Most folks that get anything in the white line spend countless hours and expend a great amount of resources trying to create, a mostly white bird, rather than a large bird that is mostly white. This is the catch 22. People that have the classic all white bird with a single dark spot on the back of the head are simply devolving large birds back to the english white roots. Because they like the all white birds.

I don't know about the "Panda" thing. We are just making names up as we go along. While we are at it, let's make up a name for jumbo/mostly white coturnix, that has no reference any university. Shall we?

 

[Stellar]

Panda is the old term for tuxedos before their coloring got more defined.