HELP! My chickens are sick and I don't know what to do! *PICS*

[ziggymoon]

Did you by chance add the nutri-drench to the cat food, and/or add water to the kibble to encourage drinking/help w dehydration

Did you by chance add the nutri-drench to the cat food, and/or add water to the kibble to encourage drinking/help w dehydration?

I did! The one that was the worst (the chicken in quarantine) is now standing and scratching, eating grass through the crate, and generally acting like she feels a little better. I added electrolytes to the water for the entire flock to encourage them to drink. I've been going in to check them throughout the day. Still no other symptoms other than diarrhea and lack of appetite. They are all still drinking well.

 

[Eggcessive]

Since you have started Corid, stop anything with B vitamins (Nutridrench, Poultry Cell, ect.) until after you stop Corid. Corid acts on coccidia by mimicking thiamine (B1) so you don’t want to give extra. You can offer the sickest birds an extra drench of undiluted Corid 0.1 ml per pound daily for a couple of days.

 

[ziggymoon]

Since you have started Corid, stop anything with B vitamins (Nutridrench, Poultry Cell, ect.) until after you stop Corid. Corid acts on coccidia by mimicking thiamine (B1) so you don’t want to give extra. You can offer the sickest birds an extra drench of undiluted Corid 0.1 ml per pound daily for a couple of days.

Oh this is good to know, thank you so much!

 

[Gezellige_Poes]

Which renders it completely useless. It wouldn't be of any effect for internal parasites to begin with, once damp, it's useless, which is why it rarely works on external parasites.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point...

 

[Gezellige_Poes]

Oh this is good to know, thank you so much!

I would definitely continue adding a supplement that offers electrolytes to help offset the consequences of diarrhea.

 

[nuthatched]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point...

I suppose so , though I would like for you to cite your sources or at least your reasoning.

For future note: for anyone else:
(WIP, I'm researching for an article)
Because DE, (also pumpkin seeds, cayenne, chewing tobacco, etc though I'm still researching them) are marketed as feed supplements rather than medicine, they need to prove only that it's safe, they do not have to prove that it's effective. ln fact, very few of them offer supporting data documenting any antiparasitic effect. When parasitologists have tested some of these products, they have rarely found convincing results.
The search for a more natural source of safe 'medications' is a good one and should be encouraged, many of to-days drugs are synthesized/concentrated versions of products found in nature. However, a common misconception that natural is always safe/ healthy, is misguided at best as Pit viper venom is natural and organic and will kill you.
The working theory for de for internal parasites is that if it's ingested, it is expelled in the droppings along with parasitic eggs, and as the droppings dry, the de retains it effectiveness and dries out the parasitic eggs, keeping the animal from re ingesting them, keeping the internal parasitic load manageable and also keeping the animal and you from breathing it as much. It does sound reasonable, but that doesn't make it true.
For it to work, the target must be in a completely dry environment, have an exoskeleton, or some sort of 'skin'. Every website or brand of de states that the product is ineffective for pest control when wet.
Every scientific study I've found on it has either ( a large majority) inconclusive results (no measurable difference between untreated and de treated groups) or found de treated groups to have significantly heavier worm loads than medicated groups. Only 3 studies (in sheep) that I've found so far, concluded that animals treated with de had a slightly less concentrated worm egg load per gram of fecal matter than the control (untreated) group, but the treated animals were 'poorly fleshed'.
Quote:
A number of people strongly believe that DE also has an antiparasitic effect when administered orally. However, I know of several studies that have evaluated the effects of DE on intestinal worms. Unfortunately, none of these have found that DE has any impact on internal parasites.

My qualified opinion is that physical damage to the parasites is unlikely to occur within the intestine of the horse. The worms and their larvae are very small, often too small to be seen with the naked eye. Infective larvae are very hardy and survive the grinding teeth as well as the stomach acids before reaching the intestine. By the time an oral dose of DE reaches the gut, it will be so diluted in the ingesta that the chances of individual particles encountering a parasite would be very small.

If the sharp particles really were present in numbers sufficient to cut the parasites, one would also expect them to cause lesions in the mucosal membranes of the horse. Furthermore, all horses ingest soil and sand, which also can have sharp edges, but we don’t see any reduction of parasite loads in response. All in all, there are no sound biological reasons to expect DE to have an antiparasitic effect—and this is supported by research.

Some have suggested that DE might be effective at disrupting parasitic larvae within the fecal pile on pasture. But, again, a number of my colleagues evaluated this hypothesis in controlled studies, and they found no such effect.
As scientists we take every opportunity to evaluate new possible remedies that can help reduce parasite loads in our horses. A few of these have some potential, but the majority have not worked well. At University of Kentucky, we are currently doing research with a couple of new treatment methods, and there is some promise. Many plants contain antiparasitic substances, but it has proven difficult to extract these and feed them in sufficiently high concentrations to the horses for them to have an effect. Many fungi also produce antiparasitic compounds. In fact, the most widely used dewormer, ivermectin, is actually produced by a fungus. So chances are good that there is an effective dewormer out there that just has not yet been discovered. Unfortunately, diatomaceous earth is not in this category, and we discourage horse owners from relying on it for parasite control.

IMO, from a researchers standpoint, 87% of my research concluded that it is ineffective in this use entirely, 8% concluded that it's better than nothing (minimal effectiveness) and 3% showed significant effectiveness, with a caveat or side effects. (slow weight gain, poorly fleshed com paired to untreated group) Respiratory scarring is also a issue but I'm still gathering data.
Given, most of these studies are on horses, sheep/goats and cattle but I see no reason why it would only work on certain animals and not others. But I'm still sifting through studies, we'll see how it pans out.
De does have good levels of trace minerals, however, it might be easier to dose with other means.
However, all poultry keepers should treat their flocks as they see fit!
Thank you!

Spoiler: Sources

Effects of fossil shell flour supplementation on heat tolerance of dohne merino rams Lwazi Mwandaa, Olusegun O Ikusikaa,b,⁎, Conference T Mpenduloa, Anthony I Okohb,c

Quotes by Martin K. Nielsen, DVM, PhD, DEVPC, DACVM
M.H. Gluck Equine Research Center
University of Kentucky
Lexington, Kentucky
found at https://equusmagazine.com/horse-care/diatomaceous-earth-dewormer-15880/

https://the-chicken-chick.com/raising-chickens-naturally-diatomaceous/

THE EFFECT OF DIFFERENT INCLUSION LEVELS OF DIATOMACEOUS EARTH IN FEEDLOT DIETS ON THE PERFORMANCE OF LAMBS A.T. Nkwana1,2, J.H. Hoon1# & P.J. Fourie2 1 Grootfontein Agricultural Development Institute, Private Bag X529, Middelburg (EC), 5900 2 Department of Agriculture, Central University of Technology, Private Bag X20539, Bloemfontein, 9300

Köster, H., 2010. Diatomite in animal feeds. Animate Animal Health.

McLean, B., Frost, D., Evans, E., Clarke, A. & Griffiths, B., 2005. The inclusion of diatomaceous earth in the diet of grazing ruminants and its effect on gastrointestinal parasite burdens. In: International Scientific Conference on Organic Agriculture, Adelaide, Australia, 277-280.

The Real Dirt on Diatomaceous Earth Used For Worming Bison
Murray Woodbury DVM, MSc, Associate Professer and Research Chair, Specialized Livestock Research and Production, Dept. of Large Animal Clinical Studies, Western College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Saskatchewan.

Effect of diatomaceous earth as an anthelmintic treatment on internal parasites and feedlot performance on beef steers.
M. I Fernandes, B.W Woodward and B. E Stromberg
Cambridge University Press, Sep, 2. 2010

Deutschlander, D. 1993. Evaluating diatomaceous earth as a wormer for sheep and cattle. In Greenbook '93, p. 37. Energy and Sustainable Agriculture Program, Minnesota Department of Agriculture, St Paul.

Gregory, B., Mulumebet, W. & Mohamed, A., 2009. The effects of diatomaceous earth on parasite-infected goats. Bull. Georg. Natl. Acad. Sci. (3)1, 129-135.

Cox, D. D. and Todd, A. C. 1962. Survey of gastrointestinal parasitism in Wisconsin dairy cattle, journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 141: 706–709

Osweiler, G.D. & Carson, T.L., 1997. Evaluation of diatomaceous earth as an adjunct to sheep parasite control in organic farming. Leopold Center Completed Grant Reports, 102.

Moore, G.A., A.M. Zajac, C.D. Thatcher, D. Notter and S. Umberger. 1995. Use of diatomaceous earth in the control of internal parasites of grazing lambs. Proceedings of the American Association of Veterinary Parasitologists meeting. 40:66-67.

Bernard et al. (2009) The Effects of Diatomaceous Earth on Parasite Infected Goats.Authors: Gregory C. Bernard Tuskegee University Mulumebet Worku North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University, Mohamed Ahmedna Qatar University

Dr Niki C. Whitley and Dr James E. Miller, North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University, Greensboro, NC, USA

Fernandez, M. I., B.W. Woodward and B.E. Stromberg. 1998. Effect of diatomaceous earth as an anthelmintic treatment on internal parasites and feedlot performance of beef steers. Animal Science. 66:635-641. DOI: 10.1017/S1357729800009206

Ahmed, M., M.D. Laing, and I.V. Nsahlai. 2013. Studies on the ability of two isolates of Bacillus thuringiensis, an isolate of Clonostachys rosea f. rosea, and a diatomaceous earth product, to control gastrointestinal nematodes of sheep. Biocontrol Science and Technology. DOI:

Bowie, E.A. 2014. Alternative treatments for Haemonchus contortus in sheep: Testing of a natural dewormer and literature review of management. Dickinson College Honors Thesis. Paper 163.

Nuti, L., B. Johnson, D. McWhinney. N. El-Sayed, and T. Craig. 2000. Is there any effect by dietary diatomaceous earths in the control of gastrointestinal nematodes? Proceedings of the American Association of Veterinary Parasitologists meeting. 45:50.

El Gayar, A., T. Craig, J. Thompson, B. Johnson, D. McWhinney and L. Nuti. 2002. The effect of protein levels and diatomaceous earths on Haemonchus contortus challenge in goats. Proceedings of the American Association of Veterinary Parasitologists meeting. 47:53-54.

 

[NelsonNelson]

Hey guys,
I have a flock of 16 birds, some of them are 3yo and others are just turning 1yo. I've hand raised them since babies all myself. I've never had any medical issues with them up until now and I don't know what is going on. They haven't had a change in environment or food. I've never wormed them with anything but have used Diatomaceous earth on their coop bedding and food a few times. Their coop is cleaned regularly and they have fresh bedding.

The past couple of days I noticed my birds were not finishing their food, which is very odd for them. When I come inside their coop and they always come running but yesterday all of them did except for a few birds, which was also kind of odd.
I kept an eye on them and noticed that my lavendar orpington was just laying in the chicken run and not really doing anything for most of the day. I went and checked on her and she was very lethargic, felt underweight and I noticed some vet feathers under her vent so I quarantined her immediately and went to check the rest of them. There were about 4-5 birds that looked like they were having diarrhea, but their weight was normal. I did not notice any sneezing or coughing in any of them. Their eyes and noses were clear and they were up and about as usual.

I went out to give the orpington some electrolytes this morning and she has a lot of watery/clear poo. Shes still very lethargic. I checked the coop and there are other birds who are having diarrhea, which is a normal brown color. Some of theirs looks mucusy. And some of the birds I noted were shaking their heads.

These are the only symptoms I've noticed: Diarrhea-brown and clear, not eating as much, lethargy in one chicken, and head shaking.

I've given the very sick one some electrolytes and cat food to try and get her energy up. I put some nutridrench for poultry in the water for the other birds in the coop.

What could this be and what do I need to do?? My vet isn't open until tomorrow but I do have a tractor supply close to me. Please help me help my babies!
Photos of watery diarrhea and the other diarrhea I found this morning in the coop are attached.

Did you get help, my chicken is having the same issue. Help